ep139

Episode 139: HBP 21 – Impenetrable Wall of Death

The spotlight is on Draco Malfoy this week, as his secret is finally revealed. Join hosts Caleb, Kat, and Eric, along with guest host Julia as they discuss Chapter 21 of Half-Blood Prince, “The Unknowable Room.”

On Episode 139 we discuss…

→ Episode 138 Recap: Zeus and Eos; thin, red eyes; trinket power; Voldy’s domination; Lav-Lav Love
→ PQOTW Responses
→ Fred & George bring Ron and Hermione together
→ How does a room come unplottable?
→ Jo’s not-so-secret dirty mind
→ Snape deserves a win…and then he doesn’t
Question of the Week
→ Check out the Alohomora! store

To listen to the show, simply click the player below or direct download the episode. You can also subscribe to us on iTunes. For more information about the podcast and to find out how to be on the show, check out our Be On The Show! page.

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  • daveybjones999 .

    About Tonks showing up and finding Harry, this is the third time in this book that Tonks runs into Harry like when she stopped him from killing Mundungus in Hogsmeade earlier in the book, and when she found him on the Hogwarts express. I always thought that Dumbledore asked her to keep an eye on Harry and that Tonks had just been making weak excuses because Dumbledore probably told her not to let Harry know that she’s been tailing him.

    • Minerva’s tartan biscuit tin

      I always thought the reason for Tonks being in this scene is in the next chapter for there is a werewolf attack mentioned. In this Greyback killed a little boy and as a member of the Order she probably knows Remus’s Story and cares for how he would feel (as he is undercover he might have been there or at least he must have heard about it), Her worry would explain why she reacts so emotional.
      But I agree with the other two occasions happening because Dumbledore told her to keep an eye on Harry.

      • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

        Does Tonks know about the room of requirement? She could, as she was in the Order the last year when Dumbledore’s army met there. After Tonks did not find Dumbledore to talk to him, maybe she wanted to visit the room and find something there that would be of help to her.

        I agree with you, I guess she knows Remus is still on the werewolf mission, and has heard about Greyback’s attack, and wants Dumbledore to take Remus out of that situation. She wasn’t too happy about Remus being undercover from the beginning and now after months the mission is even more demanding for him. He would never complain about it, because that’s just the way he is, but Tonks can’t stand it and she wants to talk to Dumbledore about it. He is still coordinating and assigning people to tasks.

        • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

          No, I don’t think Tonks necessarily knew about the room of
          requirement at this point, and if she did know about it, that knowledge was
          probably not as a result of being a member of the Order of the Phoenix.
          Remember, she hasn’t been a student at Hogwarts for years, and wasn’t in Dumbledore’s
          Army last year, as that was a student organization. I know that the Order was
          aware of the DA meetings, but can’t recall if Harry ever told anyone where they
          decided to meet. (He had one discussion with Sirius about ideas for where to
          hold the meetings, but then Sirius left the fire angry). It is never
          established whether or not Harry eventually told him that they had decided on
          the room of requirement. Presumably not, since the trio speculates that maybe
          the marauders did not know that the room was there, because it doesn’t show up
          on the map.

          But it is also equally likely that Harry told Sirius of the meetings’
          location in the room of requirement, and it is simply never mentioned. I found
          it hard to believe that one angry appearance in the fire meant that they would
          never write to each other again. Sirius could have passed the location of the
          meetings on to the Order.

          It is also possible that Dumbledore told the Order where the
          meetings were held, after the organization was exposed, as he might have
          considered knowledge of the room to a key piece of Intel for the Order
          regarding Hogwarts’ defenses. Personally though, I doubt most of these
          scenarios. I don’t doubt that Sirius knew about the room, either he knew about
          it from his extensive knowledge of the school’s secrets as Padfoot, or Harry told
          him about its’ location. But I doubt
          that Dumbledore passed on the knowledge of the room, not right away. By the end
          of the series though, everyone at Hogwarts knows about it, since it is the
          escape route for students, and the entrance for members of the Order before the
          battle, (thanks to the brilliant strategic planning of Harry and Neville) and
          Draco and his minions used it extensively in book 6, and a little in book 7. I
          should also state that I don’t think it likely that any of the death eaters
          with the of Draco and his two cronies knew about the room before the death
          eater attack at the end of the book, and I doubt Snape even knows about it at
          this point. If he did, he would know where to accuse Harry of putting the
          potions book, even if he couldn’t find it himself. I’m not sure whether Snape
          found out about the existence of the room. Regarding general death eater
          knowledge of the room, it is hard to say. They definitely entered the room of
          requirement with Draco’s help, but unless he explained to them what it was,
          they might think it was just a part of the castle they had never seen before.
          It is possible that he explained what it was to them, but equally possible that
          he did not, and I like to think that he didn’t. It would have taken way too
          much time away from the mission of trying to kill Dumbledore, and I doubt he
          would have had any listening ear eager to learn how he had accomplished the
          impossible: smuggling death eaters into Hogwarts. Nobody would have cared how
          it got done, just that it did. Snape might have been curious, but I’m not sure.
          I picture him being too secretly torn over Dumbledore to bother asking Draco
          this question. Although he might have. It’s not like he could have used that
          knowledge to keep death eaters out of the school during the seventh book, so I
          think he would have little interest as to how Draco got the death eaters in.

          The other reason I suspect that the death eaters did not
          know too much about the room is that Voldemort would not want anyone to know the location of his horcruxes. At least
          this particular one, which seems to be one he wanted to remain very closely
          guarded. Allowing anyone to gain too much knowledge about the room would be way
          too much information. So for purposes of the storyline, I prefer that the death
          eaters not know about it.

          So my long-winded answer to your question is that, if Tonks
          knew about the room, she would most likely know about it from her own school
          days, although again, she does use it a year later to enter the school before
          the battle. This is possible, although I doubt it because Voldemort makes
          reference to the room of requirement as a place that only he knew about and the
          place that you had to be “clever and cunning to discover.” And Harry later
          makes mental reference of the fact that model pupils were unlikely to have set
          foot in the room. Although a lot of people know about it, it seems to me that the
          room is meant to be kept secret, a secret hideaway club for rule-breakers and
          refugees. Tonks herself admits that she was one of these, as she lacked “the
          ability to behave myself.” So she could have discovered the room on her own,
          but would she have need of it? I have a feeling that the room only presents
          itself to those who have need of it, or gain knowledge of it through others, as
          Draco and Harry did. Remember, not even Fred and George knew about it until the
          DA, and they knew about practically all of the school’ s secret passageways.
          They did stumble across it when they had need of it, but didn’t realize what it
          was. I suspect a lot of people, excluding Dumbledore and Dobby, would stumble
          across it when they have need of it, but never realize what it was. The very
          purpose of the room is to be secretive. Even if you stumble across it once, you
          may never have need of it again. Even if you do, the possibility that it could change
          into something different according to your needs at the time, might put you off
          the sense of discovering what it truly was. I think Harry’s father and crew
          might have actually known about the room. It seems like the kind of thing they
          would be interested in learning about, and I would like to think they knew
          everything about the castle. The alternative is almost equally appealing, Harry
          would have known a secret of the castle that his father did not. I think to
          actually figure out the secret of the room, and hence know that it is there
          waiting for use when called upon, you have to really spend time plundering the
          deepest secrets of the castle, hence why Dumbledore and Dobby know about it.
          Dumbledore almost certainly discovered the room for himself, and Dobby either
          did likewise, which I suspect, or it could be a long-held secret of the house
          elves, another example of them knowing magic that wizards do not. Dobby love!
          :-) Sorry for the long-winded speculation!

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            fantastic! absolutely no need to say sorry! I love how you’ve given this A LOT of thought and shared them all with us.

            You are right, we don’t see Harry tell anyone of the Order that the DA met in the Room of Requirement. I also agree with you that the Death Eaters didn’t care where exactly in Hogwarts they arrived through the Vanishing Cabinet and Draco didn’t bother to explain.

            What I think after reading your comment twice, is that not only Harry could have told anyone about the DA meeting place. There are four Weasley children in the DA with parents in the Order who can pass on the knowledge at some point, especially after the DA has been exposed. So I think it was common knowledge in the Order after a while, but we can’t prove that from the text, and we can’t be sure if and how Tonks knew about it. I like the idea that she discovered it in her time at Hogwarts, being a Hufflepuff and all. With their common room close to the kitchens I suppose Hufflepuffs are more likely to be on friendly terms with some of the house elves, who know about the Room of Requirement because they do put stuff there, too.

            Before the Battle of Hogwarts I think people did not need to know that there are students gathered in the Room of Requirement to get there, because the passageway from the Hog’s Head lead there.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            Truly excellent points, and thank you for being so nice
            about my comments :-). You have me convinced that she probably knew about the
            room at this point, through one of the avenues you mentioned. I still doubt
            whether one of the Weasley kids would have spilled the beans, although it’s
            possible. They did sign that document after all, and even though it’s now null
            and void, I can’t see anyone else being anxious to tell the order where the
            meetings were, something about a code of honor thing, or maybe they just were
            still afraid of “her my knees”(my voice activation system didn’t know how to
            say Hermione yet, and I thought it was funny) curse. I doubt any of them would
            want the word sneak on their face in the form of acne.! , I think she told at
            least her close friends that the curse was no longer operational, although
            certainly not Zacharias Smith! There is also the possibility that this fact was
            evident to everyone, now that the organization was disbanded. I think the most
            likely Avenue for the order to know about it would have been Dumbledore telling
            them about the room after book 5. I really like your idea about Tonks discovering
            the room of requirement from the house elves. I think it might be likely that Dobby
            might have discovered the room for himself or heard other house elves talking
            about it. He seems likely to be a bit of an outcast, poor thing, and he says he
            has used the room for Winky. I wonder how her detox program is going. I hope
            she found happiness. Dobby love!

      • The Half Blood Princess

        Yeah, later when Harry realizes that Tonks was in love with Lupin all along, the werewolf attack was listed as a clue.

      • DoraNympha

        Exactly, and I don’t even think it’s that weird that Tonks bumped into Harry anyway. Even if she wasn’t tailing Harry, which she probably was, she’s one of the Aurors stationed in and around Hogwarts so I always thought it was weird that the kids never inquired the Aurors about their jobs or defensive magic or just made notice of some of them passing them in corridors. Given Harry actually knows Tonks, they should have had more encounters (or is it just my desperate need for more about Tonks and/or Lupin?). Maybe Harry found this depressed version of Tonks too unamusing compared to her usual self so he didn’t want to seek her out anyway and would have just wanted to cut their few conversations as short as possible even if Tonks had wanted to talk more. But hey-

        It’s a ruse not only for Greyback and the Prophet reporting things later than the Order knows about them and not merely indication that Lupin’s still on his werewolf mission: it means that, since Christmas, upon hearing about Tonks’s Patronus and all, Lupin’s dived into his dangerous mission even deeper, in his usual kind of self-depricating better-for-everyone-if-I-was-away-from-them behaviour, which is super sad. Point is, I don’t thiink this scene is out of the blue, I literally squeal in agony after every line of this brief encounter (just like when Harry talks to Lupin at Christmas) – this is a much too painful and complicated storyline told in such few words, because it’s so not central to the plot. So I completely understand why we only get such brief glimpses of it but [Smashes cup] ANOTHER!

    • PigPuff

      I always put this down to Tonks wanting to talk to Dumbledore about Lupin. I don’t think there is some hidden news story or anything, probably also as people have suggested that Tonks wanted to check in with DD about Lupins wellbeing. I guess Harry mentioning that he thinks Tonks is in love with Sirius always made me think that it was the reverse and about Lupin.
      I think this needed to be put in, otherwise at the end of the book when we hear Tonks’ declaration of love for Lupin its not as much of a shock. Don’t get me wrong it’s still a shock that it’s Lupin, but as readers we’ve been alerted to Tonks having a romantic interest, and that it’s a mystery.

  • The Half Blood Princess

    Thanks Kat for saying I did good on the show! And thanks for reading my comment!

    If Merope was influenced by the locket to make a potion for Tom, this begs the question of whether she should be held accountable for having essentially raped him, or whether she should be held entirely accountable.

    I feel like even though Voldy was probably trying to demonstrate dominance over Hufflepuff, the fact that he chose to show he was dominant over Hufflepuff still shows he respects her. The comment itself says this, Voldy is essentially saying, “I’m better than Hufflepuff.” But he didn’t respect her, that would mean nothing.

    In this chapter, it states that Harry and Snape disagree on how to fight dementors. However, in the course of the books we only see one way to fight dement ors: the patrons charm. This has always bugged me, even Harry and Snape can’t disagree when there’s only one option. So what method does Snape use? (I’m assuming that Harry was talking about the patrons charm.) My best guess is that Snape uses something like occlumency, does anyone else have any ideas?

    Good thing there was Lavander love earlier on the show, looks like it’s balancing out now.

    If Harry writes on the map where the room of requirement is, and it’s unplottable, I feel it would just disappear, Because unplottable means you can’t put on a map, and that would count as putting it on a map.

    Harry can’t take a hint. This is frustrating. When will he get it. The room of requirement won’t open for him. This is when I lose patience for the Malfoy mystery. They’ve taken my wheezy, this is a rare moment I agree with you about the 6th book.

    Harry’s answer to the inferi question was, as Ron says, more useful if you were cornered in a dark alley, because he is street smart. Snape’s answer is more useful in terms of understanding the actual concept of the difference between an inferi and a ghost. Snape is smart in the way Hermione is smart, there both very studious and do well in school and have good grasps on the way magic works. Both smarts are useful, and are combined in Harry and Hermione. And if Snape got thrown in jail, Harry would not be at all upset, even if he and Snape are ‘on the same side.’

    Do you think Draco felt increased guilt about his task after meeting Myrtle if he knew she was killed by Voldy?

    Later in the book, Harry guesses that Tonks heard a boy saws killed by a werewolf, and that was the rumor she was trying to confirm. It’s not clear though, whether she thinks that Lupin did it by accident, or whether she thought Lupin got caught spying and killed by the other werewolves because she didn’t get the memo that the boy was 5, or what. It’s presented as a clue that Tonks loves Lupin, but the way it’s said is very unclear.

    • Hufflepug

      She’s never stated any other way to fight Dementors other than by turning into an Animagus form (if that even counts), and hardly anyone can do that. So I agree with you, it’s weird that Snape would have argued against the Patronus charm seeing as Lupin felt it was appropriate to teach such advanced magic to 13-year-old Harry so he could fight Dementors, and if there was an easier way he would have just taught him that. So maybe this is another moment of Snape being too nitpicky or maybe this is even an example of him trying to cover up that he’s on the good side, since no Death Eaters that we know of can produce Patronuses. I like the Occlumency idea but would that count for hiding your soul as well as your thoughts?

      I agree with your thoughts on Hufflepuff and on how Harry is street smart whereas Snape and Hermione are book smart. Both are important!

      Also, Kat was right! You did great on the show! I only got a chance to listen to it yesterday and it was such a fun and interesting episode.

      • The Half Blood Princess

        Hmm, I wasn’t thinking you would use occlumency to hide your soul, I was thinking that since Snape talks a lot about “clearing your mind” of emotions, maybe you could do something like that with the depression you get from the dementors, although that still wouldn’t protect your soul.

        • Hufflepug

          Oh I see what you mean now! That’s a good idea. It almost goes along with the idea of making a Patronus – that even though the Dementor is affecting you you have to find the happiness within yourself to cast the Patronus charm. There’s also chocolate that helps cure the effects of Dementors.

        • MartinMiggs

          Dementors don’t cause depression they make you relive the worst memories of your live as though all the happiness has gone from the world. Theres a difference

        • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

          My thoughts exactly!

    • PigPuff

      HAHA I agree with what Caleb said, Lavender deserves the reputation she has. Maybe I just like Hermione too much to like Lavender.

    • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

      Great comment! And I totally agree: you did a wonderful job
      on the show! I think the reason why Snape disagreed with Harry about the
      Petronas charm might be because he hates casting one. It might be really hard
      for him to find a happy thought, poor guy! I think you are absolutely right
      about it being a potential giveaway to the dark side, although this wouldn’t
      matter for Harry and the good side, it would matter if the death eaters saw it
      and became suspicious, as hardly any death eaters can cast one. Although
      Dolores can, so being dark and evil isn’t always a hindrance for casting a
      Petronas. Although the locket may have helped her. I do think that Snape’s
      particular Petronas could have been a dead giveaway if Voldemort knew anything
      about Lily’s Petronas. Even if he didn’t know about Lily’s, a deer looks
      suspiciously like a stag, so if the dark Lord knew about James’s Petronas, then
      this could raise red flags as well. But I think it more likely that casting one
      is simply hard for Snape, so he finds other methods more useful. It’s probably
      very emotionally hard for him. He loves Lily, so every time he casts it, it
      must be a bittersweet reminder of their lost friendship. I would think he has
      to put a lot of horrible feelings aside in order to remember the good times to
      make the beautiful doe appear. If this speculation is correct, is all the more
      special what he casts it to help Harry.

  • Deathly Hellows

    Trying to download this week’s podcast but the download link is to last week’s episode :-( Help!
    (The ‘Listen now’ plays this week’s)

    • PigPuff

      This happened to me too :( I used the listen now too.

    • RoseLumos

      I download it to my phone, and since it’s an iPhone and the podcast is on itunes, i just subscribed and it automatically downloads every week. I don’t know what device you listen to the podcast on, but I love the auto downloads so if you have itunes I would check it out. As far as I can remember I never had a serious issue with it.

  • ISeeThestrals

    This episode’s download link is a link to last week’s episode for chapter 20. How can I download chapter 21 or is it not up yet?

  • Celestina Is My Homegirl

    So I was thinking about the Room of Requirement and was wondering if the room took timing into consideration?

    While in this chapter I’m sure that most of Harry’s problems are caused by not being able to find a loophole in Malfoy’s requirements, what if the room had the ability to refuse entry based on how it would affect future events.

    In this case for example, what if Harry did find the b

    • I think it can be more simple than that. What is it that Harry requires? A place? Not really. He doesn’t exactly require anything but rather he desires to find information. The room doesn’t really offer information, but locations. Harry requires a place to teach DADA in book 5 and got one. Dumbledore required a place to relieve himself in book 4 and got one. Harry has no requirement, no NEED for a location or place at the moment and therefore the room does not offer one.

      • PigPuff

        Great theory! I think this seems to make the most sense (at least to me).
        What if Harry were to change his requirements to another room (for example a room with chamber pots), would Malfoy get kicked out of the room, like what happened to Trelawny? If so this would be a fairly easy way to force someone to exit the room.

        • MartinMiggs

          Good question but technically Trelawney enters the room, hears Malfoy whooping and he throws her out of the room

      • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

        Okay so I have a theory about the room of requirement: I’d
        be interested to know what everyone thinks. I think Harry’s mistake was that he
        wasn’t thinking beyond beating Draco. His real intention should have been
        defeating dark magic, which I know is a huge part of the reason why he wants to
        catch Draco, but it is also motivated by a long-held school grudge, and that fiasco
        on the train, which still drives me crazy!! Poor Harry!

        Anyway, Harry completely
        forgot about following Draco to Borgan and Burks! If he had remembered, he
        could have asked the room a question like “do you have an object inside of you
        from Borgan and Burks or anything related to the shop?” Maybe you have
        something that the shop also has, I’m looking for a piece of dark magic. Or
        told the room, “I need to stop the death eaters and Voldermort. Do you have anything
        that would help me? Is there anything inside you that is being used by the
        death eaters or Voldermort for dark purposes? Is there anything inside of you that
        needs mending?” He would have gotten a lot of broken things when he requested
        this, but one of them would have been the vanishing cabinet. (Assuming that the
        cabinet answers questions) which we don’t know if it does or not.I’m thinking
        not only of the possibility of discovering Draco and the vanishing cabinet, but
        the location of the tiara. Although with regard to the tiara, finding it later was
        a really amazing bit of suspense in book 7, because it had to be found in such
        a hurry and under such pressure.

        Regarding the
        first-come first serve basis, this could be true, but I think there is a
        loophole. There has to be one because you can get in there if other people are
        in there. It’s therefore not exactly on a first-come first serve basis. Sybil got
        in because she and Malfoy they both have need of the same room format at the
        same time. Arguably, they were using the same room format for slightly
        different purposes, (Malfoy was mending something with the intent to carry out
        a secret dark mission, and the latter just wanted to hide her Sherry bottles.)
        Although it is possible that the room does not go into that level of
        distinction, since both individuals were attempting to hide something. It is
        known that the inquisitorial squad discovers the way of the DA is using the
        room and catches them, invading their private hideaway because they knew what
        to ask the room to transform into. Also, the members of the DA entered the room
        at slightly different times.

        I agree that the
        purpose of the room seems to be to ask it to transform into a place, and that’s
        a brilliant theory! Thank you for mentioning it and for helping me develop my thoughts!
        But I also think that the room might be used to help you find objects. What if,
        when Harry knew that that that that the tiara was there, he had simply asked
        the room to show it to him in book 7? Or summoned it? If he had known that the
        cabinet was inside the room at this time, which he did not, he could have asked
        the room to show it to him. However, due to plot lines in the story, Harry was
        clearly not meant to enter the room at this time. Furthermore, as you already
        pointed out brilliantly, it may be necessary for him to tell the room he wants
        a certain place. If this were the case, it wouldn’t work because Harry needs
        specific objects, not a specific place, but this begs the question, what if you
        cannot remember where you put your illicit object? There must be a way to
        summon objects to you. Maybe this only works once you are inside the room, but
        I would like to think that you could say, “show me my poisonous dagger” and it
        would open for you.

        I’m just upset that Harry completely forgot about the store
        adventure, and that he didn’t word his questions more carefully. If he had
        phrased them more sneakily, we might have been able to see what Malfoy was up
        to, but in the end, I agree with you that Harry should have given it up. He
        really was pigheaded about it, but I don’t blame him in the slightest. He knew
        he was right, Dumbledore was ignoring him, and he thought it was important to
        stop Draco which indeed it was. Thanks to Dumbledore though, he didn’t have all
        the information, as usual. If he had had all the necessary info, he might have
        not wasted so much valuable time, and instead gone after the memory. This is
        yet another example of Dumbledore the puppet master! So infuriating!

        Regarding the memory though, I think Harry screwed it up
        permanently from the first go around. From then on, no matter what he said,
        slug was always going to know what he was up to. If he hadn’t screwed up so
        badly the first time, he would have had a better chance at buttering slug up
        and getting the information from him covertly. Even so, he might have needed
        Liquid
        Luck.

        • Well, I wouldn’t agree with your theory. I do not believe the room does anything more than provide a location. The questions you suggest Harry should have asked are far too specific for anyone to have known to ask. The room can’t answer questions, only provide a room to aid. There wouldn’t be a room of “broken things” that would conjure up the cabinet. The cabinet is in the room of “hidden things” and would remain within this room unless moved.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            I see your point, but I think you might be slightly misunderstanding
            me. I know you want it to only be used as a place to hide things, but I’m
            asking whether the room may have untapped power, knowledge, and magic. I would
            like to think it does, although it’s purposely hard to tap into. I think there’s
            something in the room that protects people from spying on others, which is
            probably why Harry’s, “I need to see what Draco Malfoy’s doing inside you.”
            Didn’t work. And there is a part of me that simply is upset that Harry is using
            incredibly straightforward questions, and doesn’t draw upon the knowledge he
            gained at the very end of the summer, down a dark alley. However, consider
            Neville. I like to call him “THE MAN OF THE ROOM.” I believe it was Shamus who
            said, and please forgive me, bearing in mind that I’m quoting from memory, “It’s
            all down to Neville. He really gets this room. You’ve got to ask it for exactly
            what you need, like ‘I don’t want any of the Caro supporters to be able to get
            in. ’ And it’ll do it for ya. Neville’s the man!”

            Neville modestly responds, “it’s quite straightforward
            really.” He then says that he had been there about a couple of days, and getting
            really hungry when all of a sudden, the passage to the hogshead opened up. He
            went through it and met Dumbledore’s brother. “He’s been providing us with
            food, because for some reason, that’s the one thing the room doesn’t really do.”

            “Yeah well, food’ s one of the five exceptions to Gamppallots”
            (and this part I might be quoting wrongly, so please forgive me,) third law of Transfiguration.”
            Said Ron, to general astonishment.”

            So you see, if requested, the room can provide food and keep
            out specific individuals that you do not want to enter. This would seem to
            indicate that it could provide objects for you, like being able to find a
            certain broken object that Harry could have asked about in relation to his
            eavesdropping visit to the store that summer. Even though he didn’t know what
            Malfoy was working on, he could have asked it to present him with all the
            broken objects in the room. The room of hidden things is not an official title.
            It is simply the name of the place that Draco gives that particular room. That
            room is full of objects, some broken, others clandestine. Surely you could sort
            out the piles and piles of stuff in there into much smaller rooms, by asking
            the room of requirement to only show you certain types of objects, like broken
            things that need fixing. Harry really wasn’t creative enough with his wording. That’s
            what I’m upset about! It might not work, because you’re right, he would need to
            know very specific information, but it’s worth a shot. All he has to do is put
            together the little bits of information he gained during the summer and use
            them to form a different question, but he forgets all about this little foray
            into the dark alley while the trio were supposed to be in the back room of Fred
            and George’s shop. I also think that Draco knew that Harry knew something, and
            was on to him, he probably specifically told the room not to let enemies in. It
            wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if Draco had told the room specifically
            not to let Harry in.

            The question is whether Harry could actually get in, which
            as I’ve already stated, I highly doubt, because I do believe that the room can
            do more than just serve as a hiding place. It can actually get you what you
            need. Neville not only needed a place to hide, he needed food, which is not a
            location, but the room still knew how to get it for him. I suspect that the
            room is loyal to every user, not more or less loyal to anyone. It all just
            depends on how well you understand and interpret the room. It does have its
            limitations, but I think it could locate objects for you if you asked it to.
            Unless of course, an anti-summoning charm had been placed on things like horcruxs.

            Please insert sound of me hitting myself on the head, because earlier when I
            suggested that Harry use the room to summon the tiara, I totally forgot about
            this anti-summoning charm!

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            can we talk about how lucky it is that the passage leads to the Hog’s head and not to another place where food is available, e.g. the Hogwarts kitchen? That way they didn’t only have a way to get food, but got a confidante who is loyal to their cause and can make contact to the Order.

            That seems to support your theory of the Room of Requirement being able to do more than just provide locations you verbally aks for.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            Yes, really excellent point!!! The room would know not to
            open up to the kitchens because it wouldn’t be safe for Neville. Or probably
            not as safe. His objective was to hide from the caros, and find a way out of
            the castle. Can we talk about Kreatur for a second? I think it’s really awesome
            how he transformed his loyalty to Harry, he not only didn’t betray them, but he
            went back to the kitchens, which is where Harry originally wanted him to go in book
            6. He not only was obedient and loyal to Harry, he was also really smart to
            appear there when trying to get away from the death eaters.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            Oh yes, it was time for Kreacher to get out of the empty house with just the mad portrait of his former mistress to give him company. At Hogwarts he could get acquainted with other elves and form a social life.
            Well, maybe the picture of Mrs. Black has a more diverse personality if there is no one around whom she does not approve of. But that’s another question.

    • SpinnersEnd

      Wouldn’t the need of the person already in the room take precedent over someone trying to get in after it’s occupied?

      The Room of Requirement seems to work on a first-come-first-served basis. We don’t get another instance of two people trying to use the room for two different purposes at the same time, so we don’t really know how it works in those cases.

      • PigPuff

        True… If I was to take a guess the room is first come first served like you said.

  • PuffNProud

    About Harry…discussions earlier in the book and on this episode about Harry “getting it” i.e. putting two and two together about the Room of Requirement and how this isn’t typical for Harry… Not really. In SS, it’s Harry who figures out the mysterious person on the Hogs Head may have been the one to trick Hagrid into finding out how to get past Fluffy. In COS, it’s Harry who figures out the girl in the bathroom might not have left. In POA, Harry gets that Peter was the one who killed the Muggles, not Sirius while in the Shrieking Shack. It’s not really until Book 4 that Harry is more dependent on others and by the end of Book 5 he’s just so decimated that he questions himself. I think Jo did such a good job of having no one believe Harry after he’s tricked in Book 5 that it seems like Harry suddenly got smart, but really he’s had it in himself all along!

    • PigPuff

      I agree, Harry seems fairly good at piecing things together. I’d say that seeing Malfoy with young girls quite often stuck in Harry’s mind, this plus a combination of overhearing certain information helped Harry put 2 and 2 together. I don’t think it was the biggest stretch.
      What I don’t understand is how he didn’t figure out Malfoy was going into the room of requirements from the beginning haha. If he saw him disappearing on the map in that location surely he would have figured it out…the only conclusion I can come to is that Harry never saw Malfoy anywhere near the room of requirement.

      • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

        I think it’s just that he forgot about the room of
        requirement, since it’s not labeled on the map, and since he’s got so much on
        his mind. But really, I can figure him for this. It’s only because the room of
        requirement has extra built-in protection of being not on the map that Harry is
        distracted. He can’t find Malfoy. If he could find him, it would be a lot
        easier for him to figure out what he’s up to. Even once he figures out that
        Malfoy is in the room of requirement, that doesn’t really help him, as he still
        can’t figure out how to get in. As I already mentioned, I’m annoyed by the
        stupid questions he asks the room, and that he forgot about the little sidetrip
        in diagon alley, but even if the questions were worded better, I still don’t
        think he would’ve been able to get in. Would have ruined the dénouement for one
        thing!

    • Time&RelativDimensionInHandbag

      In addition to all of those — this one really hits me because it’s what Harry would do. The Polyjuice, the Room of Requirement, the lookouts… all of these are things that Harry did first, so when Draco starts using similar techniques, it all falls into place very quickly once the first piece comes together.

  • PuffNProud

    Funny to hear Caleb hating on all the characters this week!

    • I’m so glad Caleb was anti-stereotypes this week because Michaels pro-stereotypes was getting old real fast. Thanks Caleb for announcing that not ever teenager, or person of any age for that matter, has to have the same personality.

  • ISeeThestrals

    With another Harry Potter weekend happening now on abc, I took a glance at the Half-Blood prince movie. I was thinking in regards to this chapter, I think it’s a deleted scene from the film (which they include in the movie marathons) which reveals Harry realizing where Draco’s been going. Seems to come out of no where. Also, I tend to cringe that they had him realize there were two cabinets in the room by glancing over and seeing a pair of twins.
    can’t wait to hear this week’s episode

  • Hufflepug

    I remember several months ago one of the brilliant commenters here (looking back now – it was SheFlooLikeAMadman on Episode 96 – OoTP 18) was talking about how they thought the Room of Requirement was Helga Hufflepuff’s special contribution to Hogwarts because it gives students what they need without judging them, so you could say that it’s loyal to Hogwarts and fair to all of the students. This chapter shows how there’s a dark side to that: the room becomes loyal to Draco and won’t let Harry in, even though Harry is trying to stop Draco’s evil plans. Like us Hufflepuffs, it can be loyal to a fault and can fail to account for the bad aspects of whatever it is someone wants to do in there because it has an obligation to meet their needs. I just think that’s a cool way to tie this to the conversation about the dark side of Hufflepuff that you guys talked about last week!

    • But the room didn’t stop Umbridge from entering when the whole point of using the Room of Requirement in book 5 was to hide from her.

      • Hufflepug

        Good point! Again, the room doesn’t judge based on what someone is using it for. Umbridge NEEDED the room because she needed to stop their resistance against her. Her motivation to enter was stronger than Harry’s here, who just wants to go in because he wants to find out what Draco is up to because he feels some nonexistent obligation to stop him. I wonder of the room can tell that Harry won’t be able to make a difference in Draco’s plans, so his attempt to enter is futile because Draco needs it more than Harry does.

        • Nonexistent obligation to stop Malfoy!?! If you knew somebody was up to no good, would you not be obliged to stop them, especially after nobody else will?

          • Hufflepug

            I guess I should have worded that better: there’s a moral obligation to stop him but in this specific situation Harry can’t really do anything because he doesn’t know about how Dumbledore and Snape are involved and what their plan is. So it’s just nonexistent in the sense that Harry can’t do anything about it. But it’s not like he knows this yet!

          • Harry is not wrong to want to stop him. That’s the only point I’m trying to make!

      • MartinMiggs

        The room doesn’t judge if you really need it or who has the desire to use it more its all about how you phrase it. Trelawney is able to get in when Malfoy is in the room but not Harry because of how she phrases it. Malfoy in Deathly Hallows is also able to get in the room even though his need is to find Harry (the shoe is on the other foot so to speak but the results are different). Umbridge can get in because she asks for the DA headquarters.

    • PigPuff

      I think this explanation is really sweet! Hufflepuff love

    • SnapesManyButtons

      As a Hufflepuff, I like this idea, but actually, the Room of Requirement did let Harry into the room where Draco was working on the vanishing cabinet, when he needed to hide his Potions book. Harry thinks Draco is in a specific room for whatever evil thing he’s up to, when in fact the vanishing cabinet is in the room where Hogwarts students have hidden things for a thousand years. When Harry goes to hide his Potions book, he actually sees the vanishing cabinet, walks right past it (HBP pg. 526 US edition) The problem was that Harry wasn’t asking for the correct thing, the place where things are hidden. Hermione points out that the reason Umbridge could get in is because Marietta told them what the Room was being used for so they knew to ask it to become the headquarters of the D.A. Trelawney gets in because she asks for the room to hide things in for her sherry bottles. She hears Draco whooping because the vanishing cabinet is finally fixed, which shows that he was indeed in the room of hidden things where the vanishing cabinet had somehow ended up.

      • Hufflepug

        Well that explains everything; looks like I was overthinking it! Thank you for clearing that up! :)

    • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

      Good point! Although if loyalty, hence first-come first
      serve basis was truly how the room worked, no one would ever be able to get in
      to spy on another person, the way Dolores did, so the room, I don’t think his
      loyal to individual people. It depends on how you phrase things. I do wonder however,
      if there is a deeper magic in the room. Maybe the room is loyal to Hogwarts and
      its interests, so maybe if Harry mentioned stopping the dark arts it would help
      him out of a sense of duty to the school? Oh no, never mind, that can’t be
      right, because again, if good motivations were a factor in how well something
      is hidden, the DA would never have been discovered. So it can’t be due to
      either good or bad motives or any kind of loyalty in the room.

  • I live in Japan, so in all circumstances I have to wait until Sunday morning/lunchtime to download the episode. When I woke up Sunday morning the episode was waiting for me to hit download. So I did.

    I started listening still in my sleepy state. All I really heard was Caleb say ‘Welcome to the last episode…’ Followed by a pause. At that point, I jumped out of my sleepy state and started freaking out. I thought I’d slept for entire year! My boyfriend had to shove a calander at me to convince me.

    Thank you Caleb. You are now my boyfriends new best friend, as you unintentionally gave him an excuse to ridicule me all day.
    Boys team 1… Girls team 0.

  • Hufflepug

    I think it’s weird that the Room of Requirement is described as this super secret place in the books, so secret that not even the Marauders knew about it. We know that a ton of students have used it in the past because the room where everything is hidden seems like it goes on forever with a millennium’s worth of things that people have stored there, and that’s not even the only reason for the Room of Requirement to appear to someone. And it seems like after Harry’s fifth year it would be common knowledge since the DA met there and the Inquisitorial Squad found them. But then in book 7, the DA hides out there again as if no one else knows it’s there, but those Slytherins who knew about it are still at school. And of course Harry hasn’t thought about Draco using the Room of Requirement until now. Do you think there’s some sort of weak memory charm placed on the room, so people can still remember it and know it’s there but it’s harder to pull to the front of your mind unless you’re desperate for something or you go there continuously? Otherwise I feel like everyone and their mother would have known about it years ago and people would be in there all the time.

    • Most times people find it by accident, and only in the moment when they NEED it, when the room is REQUIRED. I do not think, for the most part, that one can utilize this room without a need. If someone wants to return to it to show some friends, it would not appear.

      Harry NEEDED a place to remain hidden to teach DADA. Dobby NEEDED a place to hide Winky when she was drunk. Dumbledore NEEDED a quick toilet to relieve himself while wondering the 7th floor.

      I would bet it is hard to find without that strong need.

      • PigPuff

        I just feel like finding it has to be pretty hard. You need to walk past the area 3 times thinking about what you want…you would really need to know its there to use it.
        With this in mind, the Dumbledore story doesn’t really make sense (unless he knew about the room and lied?)

        • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

          maybe tripping from foot to foot does count as walking past 3 times in cases of bladder emergency 😉

        • MartinMiggs

          If nature is calling that is all you can think about and like the saying goes “hold it in do a dance thats the way to keep dry pants” Dumbledore would be moving around thinking about needing to go to the bathroom and by luck he happened to pass the room 3 times

        • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

          I think he knew about the room and didn’t tell the whole
          truth. He winks at Harry when he tells him the story, indicating that there is
          more to it. Also the mirror has been moved to the room of requirement as
          confirmed by Jo. Which would also mean that Dumbledore knew about it. I think
          that the walking past it three times and thinking really hard may only apply
          when you know it’s there and you have a specific reason to call it into
          service. It’s a deliberate thought action. When it’s an emergency, like you
          need a bathroom, or you need a place to hide, maybe you don’t have to walk past
          it three times, maybe all you need to do is think about it constantly, the way
          people do when they are under stress. Having to hide it from an abusive
          caretaker, or having “an exceptionally full bladder” will do that to you.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            now I have a cartoonish picture in my mind of the twins running from Filch, who is yielding a mop, passing the entrance to the room three times during their rush, and suddenly there is a door!

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            :-)

            “Merlin’s saggy left buttock! Here comes filch! Run, George run!”

            Heavy breathing
            could be heard as Fred and George neared the tapestry of trolls learning
            ballet. It was hanging on the middle of a wall of a corridor at the end of the seventh
            floor.

            “There’s no way out, it’s a dead end!”

            “Okay, don’t panic,
            we just need a place to hide.”

            “There’s nothing here.”

            Filch, meanwhile, was
            coming closer and closer.

            “Place to hide, Place to hide”, the twins thought madly.

            Closer.

            “PLACE TO HIDE!”

            Filch is on them at
            last, his breath coming out in loud wheezes, his asthma having gotten the
            better of him, as the twins reached the end of the corridor with nowhere to go.

            “Caught at last, you stinking bags of Dragon dong! I have
            been trying to catch you at it forever, now I finally have you. You think it’s
            funny to bewhich my cat! Spin her head around and around in in a toilet? Do
            you? He barked manically.

            Fred and George were
            both too preoccupied and breathless to answer, but they thought their trick of bewitching
            Mrs. Norris so that she would do swirlies over and again, and then levitating
            the toilet in midair, had been highly amusing. They had thought it even funnier
            when the toilet took it upon itself to chase Filch around the seventh floor
            corridor, but now they were regretting this last piece of magic. Hilarious though
            it had been, (it would keep them in stitches for hours to come,) they had known
            that Filch would immediately suspect them, so if they were caught… and here
            they were.

            “I will feed you to Hagrid’s giant dog. Maybe you can tell
            me if it really is fluffy. It will tear you to shreds, and then you will be
            sorry, won’t you? You will never play a dirty trick again.”

            “WE NEED A PLACE TO
            HIDE.”

            They fought as one to
            keep from panicking, just as a door opened. Though it had not been there a
            second before, the twins didn’t question it. Without thinking, they dashed
            inside, slamming the door behind them, just before Filch’s gnarly hands grabbed
            them. They could hear shouting and banging outside. The toilet was still banging
            Filch on the head, and a dizzy, drenched and disoriented Mrs. Norris was still spinning
            inside it, dreadfully howling with despair that she might never get out.

            “Ouch, ouch, oh, ouch,” Filch screamed, the toilet now
            hitting him in the back, “ Where did you go, you horrible spawn of a banshee?
            Where did you go? Where did you go? I’ll get you! I’ll get you!

            “Wow, that was close!” Exhaled George, clutching a stitch in
            his side, both from laughter and exhaustion.

            “Yeah”, said Fred, sliding down into a cross-legged position,
            his back against the wall. George was leaning sideways against the same wall,
            clutching a similar spot on his ribcage. “We almost had it, but it was totally
            worth it.” An evil grin spread across his freckled face. “I’ll never forget the
            sound of her yowling, it was brilliant.”

            “She sounded like Fang.” Said George. “It’s amazing how
            something so small can be so loud. And to think, we were only trying to give
            her a bath. Filch should be thanking us for our excellent community service.”

            “Ah George,” said Fred “we are humble humanitarians.” We
            require no thanks for our services. That poor cat is dirty, and needed to be
            cleaned up. Our dear Mr. Filch is too busy to attend to this important matter,
            so we simply decided to help him out of the goodness of their hearts.”

            “Right you are, Fred! Although I do wish we could have given
            her some bubblebath from the prefects’ bathroom. What kind do you think she
            would have liked?”

            “Stinksap.” Came the decisive answer.

            “I was thinking more like boobootoobo pus.” Said George. “Give
            our caretaker some gloves for his hands. He looks cold. Surely the blisters
            would distract him. He chuckled. “When the toilet bounced off his head!”

            The twins chuckled about that for a minute, then George said
            “Where are we?”

            “This, my dear brother, Fred said, spreading his arms expansively,
            “is a broom cupboard!”

            At this point, George took the opportunity to, lovingly, hit
            his brother over the head with the end of a broomstick.

            “I know that.” He snapped. “How did it get here?”

            “Don’t know.” His brother replied, “But we better wait for
            Filch to disappear. Don’t think he can hear us.”

            “Maybe it is just one of those doors that is pretending to
            be a wall.” Said George

            “Maybe” Fred said with consideration, then jokingly, he
            said, “ At least this one you don’t have to ask politely to enter. You know
            that one down by the charms corridor that you have to bow to, and address as if
            it were royalty? “May I have the pleasure of entering, Your Grandness?” He
            said, slipping into a low, genteel bow with surprising grace, considering that
            the twins had slightly bowed legs.

            His brother chuckled.

            Although furious, Filch seemed to have become increasingly
            perplexed at their non-reappearance. When they had entered the small, dingy,
            dark broom cupboard, they had notice that the wall behind them had become solid
            immediately once they were inside. There was a door leading to the outside, so
            both brothers had tried to keep their voices at a whisper, but as the caretaker
            seemed increasingly befuddled, their voices rose slightly. He really seemed to
            have no idea where they had gone. His voice, which had been loudly shouting
            obscenities at them, now was a low murmur full of curses. They could hear him through
            the door. They could no longer hear screams of pain emanating from him, which
            meant that the smacking charm they had put on the toilet had ceased. It had
            done its job. Mischievous as they were, the twins would never dream of
            seriously hurting anyone.

            “Where could they have got to, the little brats?” He wheezed
            softly, “They disappeared. There’s no door! Just a minute my poor sweet, I will
            get Dumbledore.”

            And they heard his scuffling footsteps scuttling quickly
            down the corridor.

            “It’s now or never!” Said George, and the twins dashed down
            the long length of the seventh floor for the safety of the Gryffindor common
            room.

            It was not until three years later that the brothers
            approached the tapestry of tutued trolls again. Only then did they remember
            that the location that Harry had found for the newly formed clandestine DA had
            once been their broom cupboard hideout.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            that is special feature material if you send it in as an audio boom.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            Thank you so much! You should get the credit, because your
            comment gave me the idea! I’ll try sending it in, but I will ask if Michael can
            re-record it for the app, since he is so amazing with voices. I will definitely
            give you credit for telling me to submit it via audio, and giving me the idea
            first place! Thanks for being so kind :-)

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            I am all in for host love, but what I also want to propel is mutual listener encouragement. Our hosts are great at what they do because they’ve been doing it for a while and they had to start once, too, with an idea and someone who took the time to make something more of it.

            Do grab two or three of your friends and record the scene yourself in different voices! Maybe it’s the beginning of something great!

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            Thank you so much for your encouragement!! I will definitely
            work on that, I’m sure I can get a few friends together, but in the meantime, I
            finally got my audio systems to work, and audio boom. Must’ve been a problem
            with my microphone. I would kill to hear Michael read it, since I’m not as good
            with voices. Thanks again for giving me the inspiration to write it, wouldn’t
            have happened without your comment. I love these forms! Took me forever to
            start commenting.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            same here, I had some listening to the first 60-odd episodes to do until I caught up, then reading the comments became THE thing and once you start to comment yourself there is no end to it. 😉

            But a tiny thing: you may want to rephrase your enthusiasm about Michael recording your text. We know he’s great, but no Hufflepuff – and I think it is safe to speak for all the hosts and generally most people I can think of – would want you to kill fort that. Or kill at all. And no horcruxes! (is that a phrase magical parents would use when they instruct their kids before they go out? “No apparating! No substance abuse! No horcruxes!”)

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            sorry bad habit

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            Tried but failed to send it via auioboom, that thing hates
            me!!!!!!!

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            don’t take it personal, audioboom is known to have problems. You can record yourself on your own computer and send the file via email (if you haven’t done so already).

    • RoseLumos

      Maybe the room is like how Lupin describes spells – they tend to go in and out of fashion. So maybe the generation before the Marauders used it a lot and it thus became as secretive as the potions classroom (aka not secretive at all). Students may have stopped sneaking in there if it wasn’t the “cool” hideout. And when things become top cool, they then become uncool and no one used it. So by the time the Marauders started their first year the older students didn’t care about it. Now in Harry’s generation it had broke cool again, but may fade back into obscurity (although I think Ron says that the fire at the end of DH may cause it to never open again).

    • PigPuff

      This is an interesting point! I don’t think a memory charm exists otherwise Harry etc would forget about it, but maybe there is something else going on here?
      I’m pretty sure the room isn’t known about by the mauraders (can anyone confirm this?), I’m only basing this off when Harry asked Sirius for advice about where to have the DA meetings, and Sirius wasn’t sure. Anything this to note is that most students wouldn’t need to use the room of requirements, especially the mauraders generation, there didn’t seem to be any reason for students to hide in it etc.

    • MartinMiggs

      Fred and George know more about the school’s secrets except the Marauders. Considering they were not familiar with this room (they came across it once as a broom cupboard and thought nothing more of it) it’s very likely this is not a well known room. Hogwarts is a very old school so it wouldn’t be that difficult for the room to collect many hidden items without the knowledge of the room becoming well known

      • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

        everyone knows about the chamber of secrets and still no one bothers to go there. Nothing interesting in there. 😉

        • MartinMiggs

          you have to speak parseltongue or be able to impersonate it apparently and how many people could do that? Also do people know where it is why would Harry, Ron, Hermione, or Dumbledore mention anything about it

      • Hufflepug

        I like this explanation a lot. When someone desperately needs the room and just stumbles across it they’re probably not thinking about where it came from – they figure it’s been there all along and Hogwarts is so confusing that they’ve just never noticed it. And they’ll probably never run into that situation again, so they’ll figure “well, I hid my object in this big room and I’ve never found it again so I guess it’s just an enchanted hiding place.” They may think that the room only serves the one function they needed at the time and won’t give it much thought afterwards (hence Dumbledore talking about it like it was just a room full of chamber pots – if we can trust him that he didn’t already know the truth about it!)

  • SlytherinKnight

    Thank YOU!!!!! Thank you so much for talking about how Harry is so lazy in HBP!!!!! I can’t recall which host talked about it early on in the episode but that has always been my biggest peeve with Half Blood Prince, even more so than the romance that is thrust upon us in the book. My favorite books were books 3-5 because we see Harry actively trying to better himself and growing into the powerful wizard that we know he can be. But then in Half Blood Prince, Harry pretty much becomes Ron, he constantly looks for the easy way out of doing things (getting Slughorn’s memory, using the Potions books, etc.) In PoA, we see Harry actively seek out Moony to learn the Patronus Charm, in GoF, Harry learns a ton of new spells for the Tournament and then in OotP, teaching the DA and learning even more spells but in HBP, Harry regresses to someone who must have everything handed to him. I feel that JKR really did Harry a disservice by having his character fall so much after OotP from a powerful wizard who is still growing into his own to a lazy, plodding boy must have things handed to him or seeks out the easiest path to figure things out.

    • I agree. Why Harry, why?!?

    • MartinMiggs

      Harry is lazy? So what would you call him when he jumps at the opportunity to go find a Horcrux with Dumbledore?

      • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

        Back in Hero Mode.

        • MartinMiggs

          so when there is an opportunity for Harry to do something he does it = not lazy

  • Minerva’s tartan biscuit tin

    Maybe someone can help me. What does an Augurey have to do with Dementors? Was it just put there so Jo could have the discussed O-R-G… misspelling? Or was she aiming for a little inside(-quill)-joke with Augurey feathers making for bad quills (they repel ink) in the scene where a spell-checking quill repels correct spelling?

    • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

      There is no known connection between augureys and dementors, but maybe there is a legend that says augureys are part of a defence against dementors and Ron was just writing about it (because he knows about wizard superstitions and stuff).

      The students have to write essays of a certain length and Ron might put anything in there to fill the page, even if it is not really relevant to the topic.

    • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

      so much for correct spelling: the text says “augury”, not “augurey”, we’ve both mixed that up. And augury makes more sense in a dementor essay.

  • In book 5 Harry kept the Marauders Map posted on the wall in the Room of Requirement to keep watch on who was going by outside. Was the room not on the map then?

    • PigPuff

      I figured Harry just watched for people in the corridor outside the room, which does appear on the map (right?).
      What I don’t get is if Harry has been watching Malfoy so much, he must have seem him near this corridor ALOT! Harry would have to be incredibly dense to not figure out he was using the room.

      • Yes. Just more character inconsistencies throughout this book. Harry is simply NOT that dumb, especially if he is actively trying to figure out Malfoy’s plans 24/7. If he had been watching that corridor for Umbridge all the time last year, it should look pretty familiar to him this year.

        We need book 5 Harry back. This one is too out of character.

      • MartinMiggs

        there are hundreds of dots on the map with a bunch of names and the map itself must be pretty large on its own so it is difficult to find 1 person if you have no idea where they are. Malfoy would not be hanging around in the corridor for a long enough time for Harry to spot him.

    • MartinMiggs

      no why would it? The only thing that changes on the map is the dots and the names following the dots

  • RoseLumos

    So I was thinking about the spell check quill and I couldn’t help but think about what would happen if Fred and George gave Ginny one. How traumatizing would it be for her to be sitting there, doing her homework when suddenly the words on her parchment started changing? Like, what if she (for assume reason) was writing “Lord Voldemort” and it changed to “I am Tom Marvalo Riddle?” I don’t know about her, but I would be having a major PTSD episode.

    • Unlikely she would be writing Lord Voldemort for any reason ever, but it would be nice to see some side effects from her experience with the diary, especially because we are slowly learning about Horcruxes and what they do!

      • RoseLumos

        Yeah, I don’t expect her to actually be writing Lord Voldemort, but I do think the idea of having something related to the diary return. We get a nice scene in OotP when Ginny reminds Harry that she was also possessed at some point but it was short. I would have loved to see Ginny have to face her demons again in some form. Ginny is one of my favorite underrated characters because she really is such a fun character with lots of great backstory but we see so little of her it’s hard to really get to know her.

  • RoseLumos

    I know the hosts don’t have enough time to mention every little thing that happens in the chapter, but in the beginning of this chapter Harry is looking through his potions book and notices Sectumsempra written for the first time. He dogears the page for another day, it is scary how close he becomes to just trying it out, especially since Hermione happens to be sitting right next to to him. Having it mentioned now is pretty clever, since this is the chapter when we are getting closer to confronting Draco.

    • PigPuff

      Good pickup… I wonder who he wouldn’t used it on if Hermione wasn’t around at that moment?

      • RoseLumos

        I know, he could have done some serous damage. What if he just thought it with his wand in his hand pointed in no particular direction? Imagine if he accidentally slashed an innocent first year just sitting in the common room.

        This also makes me think about how Snape invented the spell. We see that he crossed out the word multiple times as he tried the spell out. Do you think he ever practiced on anyone? I feel like we would have heard some story by now about Snape slashing and seriously injuring a fellow student, so I’m wondering what he was or who he practiced on.

        • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

          erm, house elves maybe?

        • PigPuff

          This is a bit of a worry! I wonder who Snape used the spell on, surely someone, and since it’s in his potions school book he would have used it on someone at Hogwarts.
          Has anyone ever wondered why the book is just lying around, I find it weird that Snape would just leave all his secrets in this book.

          • I hope he got to use it on James at least once, the little prat!

          • RoseLumos

            I wondered that too. In fact, that is a really big question – why is Snape’s old book just sitting around? I guess the options are:

            1. He also borrowed the book from Slughorn but instead of respecting it like a library book he scribbled all over it. This would make sense since we see in The pensieve later that his family didn’t appear to have a lot of money and as any college/university student knows, textbooks are expensive.

            2. He voluntarily gave his book to Slughorn at the end of a year. Maybe he hoped someone would find it later and marvel at his genius? This is a little like Tom Riddle, but in both cases they were poor underdogs who wanted to prove their powers to others.

            3. Snape’s book was confiscated for some reason but Slughorn just forgot about it.

            4. It was Snape’s old classroom, so maybe that cabinet was just his book’s old hiding place and he forgot about it when he changed classes.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            it was Eileen Prince’s book before Severus used it. So option 1 is out. I don’t know why it should be confiscated, so I think option 3 is unlikely. The same goes for 2, I’m not sure if Snape wanted to share his knowledge or influence someone through the book. Any plans he might have had when he wrote it will most likely become moot when he grows up to be Dumbledore’s spy for Lily’s sake.
            I think he had it somewhere in his teaching sphere, either classroom or office, and because he had other things on his mind than his old textbook (it is certainly not as precious to him as the horcrux-diary was to Tom) he didn’t think to put it away and out of reach for the kids. When Slughorn got the rooms all the stuff Snape had there was sorted and moved and some unknowing house elf just put the textbook in with the other ones.

          • RoseLumos

            I went on the Harry Potter Wiki to fact check, and according to them, “The first known owner of this copy of Advanced Potion-Making was Severus Snape, the future Potions Master of Hogwarts, when he was still attending as a student. Not being well off, the book was second-hand; nothing is known of its original owner, though some theorise that it may have belonged to Eileen Prince, Severus’s mother.” So it’s only a theory that the book was once Eileen’s.

            However, I do stand corrected because, “When Severus left Hogwarts, he fell in league with the Death Eaters, though never lost his old copy of Advanced Potion-Making. When he eventually returned to Hogwarts to work as Potions Master, he kept this copy of Advanced Potion-Making in a cupboard in his classroom (perhaps to use its annotations for his own teaching, as it was obviously not meant to be used by students). When he changed teaching positions and Horace Slughorn gained the classroom, he left the book there.” So it does appear that Snape just left the book in his old classroom.

          • PigPuff

            Nice, yeah I was leaning towards option 4 a little more too so it’s interesting to read about why the book was just lying around.
            I guess Snape just forgot about the book, maybe after all this time he had memorized everything?

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            I’m sure he has everything memorized. To become a potions master you need to be independent from books and recepies.
            Snape has gotten so far away from looking things up in the book, he even makes the kids use his instructions in class, not the ones in the book.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            I’m confident you’re right about that, but my memory is
            failing me. Could you give me an example of when he does this? I remember him
            sneering at Hermione for answering a DA DA question about nonverbal spells by
            copying it almost word for word from the book, but I don’t remember him telling
            the class to follow different instructions from the book.

            Which brings up the question of Harry’s dishonest use of the
            potions book. On the one hand, I can definitely see how it might be considered
            cheating. He’s getting all these hints from the Prince that nobody else is
            getting, and, much, much worse, he is keeping it secret. On the other hand, it
            is not his fault he ended up with that particular book. If he had just been
            forthright with slug about the hints in the margins, I think he would have been
            allowed to keep it, maybe. It is an advantage, and these ideas are not Harry’s
            original ideas, but no one is following their own original ideas, they are
            following instructions in a book. Harry’s instructions are just different. It’s
            kind of like having a brilliant mother or father who passed on their textbook
            to you. You might learn a lot from it that others might not know. If Harry had
            told everyone about the book, it would have been way more fair for everyone,
            and he could’ve shared the tips with everyone, thus increasing everyone’s
            knowledge and the competition within the class. The dishonest part is making
            slug think that Harry had these original ideas.

          • PigPuff

            I agree, it’s not really cheating, Harry is just using a different set of instructions.
            Also even if you have instructions you can still screw the potion up, it’s still upto the brewer to get everything right and do it in the correct order. I’m just re-reading OotP and Snape asks them to make a Daught of living peace, he asks Harry (who’s potion is terrible) if he did step 3 and Harry’s like… whoops.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            for example in OotP, chapter “Professor Umbridge” (can’t tell you the page because I only have a german copy) in the scene PigPuff described: Harry messed up his potion because he skipped a line of instructions and the instructions are on the board. Snape writes the instructions on the board because he knows that the ones in the book are less effective than his own, and he can’t correct everyone’s books or doesn’t want to write a new one.
            It is also more tidy in the room if there are no books lying around everywhere, which is an advantage in classes like potions. But Snape’s main reason for putting the instructions on the board is that he has developed improved versions of the recepies and he is right to teach them.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            OHH,

            Thank you so much! I never even thought of that! I always
            thought that Harry just skipped a line on the blackboard, and Snape was
            unfairly making fun of him and giving him a zero, and it made me absolutely furious!
            I never thought that the instructions written on the board were different than
            the ones in the book, but that make sense, why would Snape rewrite the
            instructions on the board if they were the same? I always thought before, that
            he did that to help students out, but now, I am hitting myself in the head,
            because your explanation makes a lot more sense! Why would Snape want to help his
            students out? When has he ever willingly
            helped anyone out except Draco and Dumbledore?

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            if his mother also had the habit of writing into her textbooks, then Severus would have bought a new used copy for himself. As Eilieen was skilled at potions, we can assume that she went beyond what the textbooks say. We can’t prove either way from the text, but as old books are not handed down in families we see (there must have been loads of old textbooks from Bill and Charlie so that their younger siblings don’t have to buy every single one on the list), it’s likely that Severus bought his own copy.

            I don’t think Severus borrowed the book from Slughorn, because students are required to buy their own books, and if they are in need of financial assistence they will get it. Harry borrowing the book is an temporary exception and he is expected to order a copy of his own, as is Ron, whose family is also not well off.

    • SlytherinKnight

      This is another thing that has bugged me about Harry’s attitude during this book. When he finds a spell in the Potions book, Harry tries it out (Levicorpus in his dorm room) without really thinking of the consequences, and obviously he will use Sectumsempra without thinking in the future, why in the HELL would Harry do this!?!?! Why not try and find an empty classroom, like during the Tournament, and test out the spell in a controlled environment? To me, it shows that Harry doesn’t have any respect for magic and its dangerous side, he has pretty much fallen into the trap of having power and not thinking of what could happen when it is used improperly (much like Dumbledore was afraid of doing when he got the Elder Wand) and it really brings home the fact that his character has taken a hard downward turn in development IMO after OotP.

      • MartinMiggs

        Sectumsempra has the warning for enemies so Harry doesn’t test it out. He only uses it when Malfoy tries the Cruciatus Curse on Harry

      • RoseLumos

        Being skilled in magic and having a wand is almost like walking up to a loaded gun and thinking, “Hey, I wonder what this does, let me just test it out!” You can’t just have the responsibility of being a wizard who is capable of great magical acts and walk around like it’s no big deal.

        I think an excuse could be that he is a teenager that doesn’t understand consequences, but I don’t think that fits Harry’s character well. Harry really has had a tough life, and he should be more aware of dark magic than any other teenager because of what he has witnessed (like running off to the Ministry on a whim because Sirius MIGHT be there).

        Then again, looking at Harry’s past, he is known to blindly trust people without much convincing. Look how easily he follows Hagrid in SS/PS, the diary in CoS, and Moody in GoF. He had a bad childhood and does tend to trust anyone who is nice to him because from a young age he never had anyone actually be nice to him. So we see him trusting the potions book because the Half-Blood Prince seems nice and smart. Even though Hermione tells him it’s a bad idea, he still thinks everything the Prince writes is helpful, and he had no indication until later that there could be something sinister hiding in the pages.

        • MartinMiggs

          he thinks what the prince writes is helpful because it is helpful! That’s how he remembered to save Ron’s life! Yes Hermione tends to be right a lot but she also has a bias against the prince because she’s been outsmarted by him. She was also wrong about the Firebolt so her judgement is not always correct

          • RoseLumos

            Yes… but having blind faith that everything the book says is helpful is just bad thinking. There is no such thing as a perfect person (look at Dumbledore). Sure, the book can give great advice but it’s wrong to assume that everything that is written will automatically help you. That is Harry’s problem – he had trouble finding shades of grey in people; they are either perfect or they’re evil. In this case, he assumes the book is perfect and that every spell will help him. Even though the book does help in various ways, he needs to realize that you can’t trust a stranger’s handwriting.

          • MartinMiggs

            How is it blind faith when he has been helped by the book before? Yes nobody is perfect but that doesn’t mean you should never trust anyone ever. As I’ve written in a previous post Harry reads the “for enemies” note and decides not to test it out randomly. He only uses Sectumsempra when Malfoy tries to use Crucio on him.

          • SlytherinKnight

            I think its also the fact that he didn’t try the spell out at all before using it on Malfoy. Why didn’t Harry go find an empty classroom and try the spell out in a controlled environment, much like he did in GoF while training for the tournament. If he had seen what Sectumsempra does, he might have used a different spell against Malfoy in the bathroom, though he still might have used it regardless.

          • MartinMiggs

            he trains using Ron and Hermione! BAD idea!
            page 498 in the UK edition of Goblet of Fire, “Can’t we kidnap Mrs Norris?” Ron suggested… having just been Stunned and reawoken by Harry”.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            but in that case he uses spells they already know, not a handwritten one from some old mouldy book.

          • PigPuff

            I don’t think Harry would have every used Sectumsempra if he knew what it did…on anyone. When he’s up against death eaters in Deathly Hallows the worst he uses is a stunning spell. He also says to Hermione he’s really sorry it happened, and not just because he got detention but that he would have never used such a dark spell knowing what it did.

        • PigPuff

          I think this is a situation where Harry had to “learn the hard way”. I’m assuming he will never again test out some random spell he finds.

  • PigPuff

    Great show this week, thanks guys!!
    I wanted to bring up a point that Caleb raised. I’ve just finished my re-read of Deathly Hallows, and it drove me crazy how little Dumbledore helped Harry. He gave the trio a heap of clues but no actual answers, which to me is simply infuriating.
    When Caleb brought up the Slughorn memory, and he asked the question “Why isn’t Dumbledore helping Harry” it reminded me of the lack of help from Deathly Hallows.
    Doesn’t anyone else find it frustrating that Dumbledore doesn’t help Harry out and point him in the right direction? And can anyone think of a possible reason that Dumbledore doesn’t help Harry by giving clues to retrieve the memory. I remember it mentioned on the show a few weeks back, someone brought up that maybe Dumbledore was trying to teach Harry how to manipulate someone to get the information he needs?
    Obviously Dumbledore brought Slughorn back to teach for a few reasons, but the largest reason was to get the memory off him. Dumbledore knew that Slughorn loved Lily Potter, and had a large amount of remorse for what he’d done. I feel like Dumbledore should have shared some of this information with Harry, and given him some advice on how best to get the memory.

    • Firstly, at the end of Order of the Phoenix, we learn that Dumbledore was waiting for the right moment to “tell Harry everything.” Then, in Half Blood Prince, we see a weakened Dumbledore, with the blackened dead hand. Dumbledore was probably ready to start telling Harry every little detail, but became fatally injured. He knew he wouldn’t be around long to always be able to hold Harry’s hand and tell him everything.

      Dumbledore had to begin training Harry to discover and learn for himself. These mysterious lessons and secrets that Dumbledore shares are just enough to get Harry thinking for himself. Harry will need to know how to do many things on his own, and Dumbledore refraining from spilling all the secrets is a way to train Harry.

      • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

        I think from the first times we read the series we are used to look at Dumbledore the way Harry does. Dumbledore knows everything and he must provide what everyone needs to go about their missions. Knowledge, guidance, comfort, chances, second chances, protection and so on. Dumbledore has worked for decades on being irreplaceable for the wizarding world. Harry in his first years acted on his inner Gryffindor and went into hero mode to rescue people and fight evil. Dumbledore let him do that, because it suited him.

        Now as time runs out Harry needs to become more specific in his hero mode, doing exactly what Dumbledore wants him to, and at the same time he needs to learn to not rely on Dumbledore for every step.

        The method Dumbledore uses to teach Harry self-reliance has its downsides. Harry takes much longer to figure things out, walks away in the wrong direction and annoys his friends instead of listening to them, er, Hermione. As an experienced teacher Dumbledore will usually choose a teaching method that is appropriate for the student and the object of learning, but in this case he has to do otherwise. By going the secret-route Dumbledore has manouvered himself into the corner of needing to rely on one person to do what must be done.

        • PigPuff

          I guess this is my problem with it, that Dumbledore doesn’t want Harry to rely on him for every little step. At the same time though Dumbledore is basically acting like a puppet master and wanting Harry to do everything he’s asking him to do.
          I just feel like there isn’t enough give and take. I think this is half the issue with their relationship, that Dumbledore and Harry have a very student teacher relationship, not a friendship/ alliance or whatever you’d want to call it.

      • PigPuff

        I can understand that Dumbledore wants to “teach” Harry to some degree, but this is the fate of the whole wizarding world we’re talking about. I personally feel Dumbledore shouldn’t leave so many things to chance, and just rely on Harry to figure it out eventually.

        • But why doubt Dumbledore’s craziness when things turn out rather perfectly in the end? Everything Dumbledore did lead to the triumphant end game after all!

  • PigPuff

    Hey guys
    A quick question about the room of requirements, and forgive me if this is a stupid question or I’ve gotten my information wrong, I’m still trying to figure out exactly how it works (I guess we all are lol, if only Neville was here).
    So Trelawny gets kicked out of the room by Malfoy in a later chapter. Does that mean that anyone who goes to use the room for a different purpose than someone inside the room will be tossed out?
    If this is the case it actually seems dangerous to hide inside the room.

    • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

      did the room kick her out or did Malfoy?

    • SnapesManyButtons

      The vanishing cabinet was in the Room of Hidden Things where Harry hides his potions book and where the Diadem was hidden. Malfoy goes to that room to repair it among all the various things that have been hidden there over the past 1000 years. Harry actually sees the vanishing cabinet as he looks for a hiding spot (pg. 526 HBP US edition) and puts the Diadem on an old bust as a way of marking where the Potions book was hidden. Trelawney uses that room to hide her empty sherry bottles so they were actually in the same room, not different rooms created for different purposes.

      I believe if someone is using the room for a different purpose, it just won’t appear for anyone else who comes along.

      • PigPuff

        That makes sense, but then why was Trelawny ejected from the room…I guess this will be discussed in a few chapters when it happens. We know that more than 1 person can be in the room at any 1 time.

        • Malfoy cursed her out!

        • SnapesManyButtons

          Malfoy kicked her out. She says she heard whooping when she went in, that was Draco celebrating that the vanishing cabinet was finally fixed. Then all went black before she was tossed out (HBP pg. 542 US edition), that was Draco using Peruvian Instant Darkness Powder so she wouldn’t see him. He has a Hand of Glory that allows only the holder to see in darkness, so he could see her but she couldn’t see him. He uses the Darkness Powder and Hand of Glory again when he brings the Death Eaters from the Room of Requirement into the castle (HBP pg. 618).

          • PigPuff

            Ok haha that makes sense, my bad.

  • SnapesManyButtons

    It’s probably only me, but I always thought that Ron’s brothers gave him that quill as a joke. They told him it was a spell check quill, knowing he would use it, but it was in fact a joke quill that spells everything wrong instead of correcting it. You’d think if a genuine spell check quill could go bad like that, someone would have noticed it before. Anyway, I always read it as a prank on Ron by the twins.

    • SpinnersEnd

      I had always read it that way too. It came from Weasley Wizard Weazes, so you always have to be wary of those things.

  • SnapesManyButtons

    Okay, so on page 526 of HBP, US version, Harry goes into the Room of Requirement to hide his Potions book and finds an enormous room where Hogwarts students have hidden things for literally a thousand years. He “took a left at the broken Vanishing Cabinet” to get to his hiding place. Later, on page 541, Trelawney goes into the Room to hide her sherry bottles and finds someone already there, whooping in celebration. Clearly Draco happy that the Cabinet is finally fixed. Draco is not in a special room just for working on the Vanishing Cabinet, he is in the room where students/staff hide things and that’s where he goes to work on it. Harry can’t get into the room when he tries because he doesn’t know what specifically to ask the room to turn into, like when Umbridge was able to get in because she knew to ask it to become the Headquarters of the D.A. But Harry actually does get into the room Draco uses to fix the Vanishing Cabinet when he goes to hide his Potions book, he just doesn’t know it!

    So my question is this, how did the Cabinet end up in that room, and how did Draco find it? Did he take it there looking for a place to hide it and find the room of hidden things? Or did Draco find himself in the room when hiding something else and discover the Cabinet there? And why wasn’t there a little girl in the hallway dropping scales or something to warn Draco that Trelawney was entering the room?

    • PigPuff

      Good question! Since Montague was trapped in the cabinet the previous year I feel like it had to of been moved somewhere by the teachers for safety, the question is whether or not it was moved in the room of requirement or just into some other secured room.
      I think there is a chance Malfoy moved the cabinet into the room himself (otherwise how would he have ever found it?), assuming he knew about the room, he would have taken it to the room and said “I need a place to hide something”, so this makes sense it would be in that particular variant of the room of requirement.
      I think another question is how did Malfoy know about the room? Would his father or someone have told him to help with his mission? For a secret room there is a surprisingly large number of people who know about it.
      As for Crabbe and Goyle… maybe they got fed up with taking Draco’s orders, they did seem annoyed by helping him in this chapter, and Trewlawny doesn’t enter the room for another few chapters yet.

      • Malfoy might know about the room after his time with the Inquisitorial Squad!

        • SnapesManyButtons

          That’s true. Somewhere along the way the Cabinet was dropped by Peeves as diversion and that’s why it’s broken. I wonder if Filch put it in the room because it was broken, or if Malfoy found the room by asking for a place to hide the Cabinet until he could find out how to fix it? Once he knew the room was there it wouldn’t be surprising for Draco to ask it for a place to hide something, surely he found himself on occasion with things he shouldn’t have had.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            at first the cabinet was in a classroom (why put such a thing in a place where there are kids all around? Typical Hogwarts!), Peeves broke it on Nick’s request, then it was in a corridor when the twins shoved Montague inside. Montague told his story of being trapped, so Draco got his idea and moved the cabinet to a safe place. Knowing that there is a room that can provide anything someone needs, including hiding space, it’s not really important if Draco had been to the Room of Hidden Things before. After he brought it there (might have been before the summer holidays) he could start repairing it.

            If Draco had known about the Room of Hidden Things, then he would also have known that it is the Room of Requirement, would he? That would have made finding the hiding place of the DA much easier.

          • I wonder if we can piece together passing clues about how Malfoy found the location of the cabinet. Passing clues involving Filch, Peeves, or others!

        • PigPuff

          Didn’t think about that… I guess he knows about the room then 😀

  • Yo Rufus On Fire

    Great episode guys!!

    I wanted to touch upon a couple things.

    First, Harry mentions that he needs to turn in an essay for Snape on how to take on a Dementor, and he thinks that Snape will disagree with the way he thinks it should be handled. If Harry writes about using expecto patronum, what do you think Snape thinks is the best way to take on a Dementor?

    Second, After Ron screws up his essay with the Spell Check Quill, Hermione takes it and fixes it for him. It takes her about 20 minutes to do it. How did Hermione fix it? I imagine her moving around the letters with her wand, but somethings were spelt drastically different, like Dugbogs for dementors. So how does Hermione know how to fix it? Is there a way way reverse spellcheck? It might turn it back to what Ron had actually spelled, even though the quill thinks it incorrect.

    • The Vegemite Sand Witch

      You would think there would be some kind of spell check spell, but since it took Hermione 20 mins to fix she must have had to read through the whole assingnment deleting the wrong words and rewriting them by hand.

      • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

        “Hermione silently tapping each of his misspelled words with the end of her wand, so that they corrected themselves on the page.”

        Hermione reads the entire essay, and when she comes across a word that is spelled wrong she thinks the right word in her head. Then she nonverbally uses the spell that teachers use to make words appear on the board and taps the wrong word. That way the ink rearranges itself to form the word she has in her mind, and also in Ron’s handwriting. If she wrote the words by hand, she would have to imitate Ron’s writing, because Snape can tell them apart and would give Ron a bad mark for not doing the work himself.

        • The Vegemite Sand Witch

          Ah, thanks for pointing that out :)

    • RoseLumos

      On the Dementor essay, maybe there are different approaches for how to attack the Dementor. Like maybe Snape insists that when a Dementor approaches you, you are supposed to use the Patronus from behind, our try some other spells like Lumos before the actual attack. He may also have different theories on thinking of a happy memory or disagrees with Lupin’s theory on eating chocolate immediately after.

      • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

        When Madam Pomfrey and Lupin agree on the chocolate, I think it is common practice. So I think the point where Harry and Snape disagree is about the state of mind you need to cast a patronus. Harry picks a happy memory, which is sometimes really hard, especially when you’re in an attack. Snape might suggest something that makes a less powerful patronus, but be easier to achieve when you can’t think of something happy to safe your life. Snape is used to clearing his mind and calming himself, concentrating on keeping his memories locked away. That is easier for him, I think, than finding a truly happy memory that is not by now clouded by guilt and fury.
        So they might both be right, concerning what you want: a patronus as powerful as possible (like Harry’s when he chased away hundred dementors) or a patronus you can cast even if you are unhappy. Which one is better depends on the circumstances.

        In the text says they are to write about “the best way to tackle dementors” and that gave me the mental picture of someone wrestling on the floor with a tall, cloaked figure without legs…

        • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

          ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT IDEA, that would be just like Snape.
          And it makes perfect sense since the only way we know how to tackle them is
          with Petronass. You just give me an image of the trio hitting dementors with
          pillows, feathers flying everywhere :-)

  • Fawkes’ Trill

    Re: Harry figuring out the Draco plot too quickly. I don’t find if surprising at all. One, because that is exactly what the trio did in second year. Especially as people stealing polyjuice/ingredients of polyjuice has been a running theme in books 2, 4 & 6. They also had a system to get into the RoR and I am sure after the sneak attack from the inquisition squad, they were thankful Dobby warned them but probably wished they had a look out system as well. Two, he had the idea that Draco was a death eater from the beginning. Our brains have the tendency to link outliers together. Everything he sees as out of place, he catalogs and tries to link to Draco’s own out of place behaviour which he’s keenly aware of. The RoR was the missing piece to get the whole picture of where Draco was going when he disappeared. I see this like one of those classic chocolate frog quote moments where he had the dots but they weren’t lining up. Harry’s mind was telling him there is something wrong with that girl dropping the scales but he couldn’t link it to anything else.
    Speaking of the girl, Harry’s Slytherin side was definitely showing with his bit of psychological warfare on Goyle/Crabbe and Draco. Making Draco feel cornered is a sure way of making him slip up or at least doubt himself.

  • DisKid

    On who people thought Myrtle was talking to in this chapter, I actually wondered if it was Neville in my first read. While Neville had been starting to form his own identity and make a name for himself among other people, he was still seen as a dork and was made fun of earlier in the book. I had no doubt he was still getting made fun of and considering this had been going on for years, it wouldn’t have surprised me if this had been Neville she had been talking to. The thought never even occurred to me that it was Malfoy. It’s a little too bad I didn’t figure it was Malfoy as I was looking forward to figuring out what secret Neville was carrying and only to find out it’s Malfoy! What a let down for my own assumptions.

  • SnapesManyButtons

    I tried to ignore it, but I have to respond to the offhand comment that Lupin lost his DADA job because of a “childhood grudge.” This implies that Lupin did nothing to deserve to lose his job. So let’s take a look. Firstly Lupin forgot to take his potion and by his own admission, “I could have bitten any of you.” (PoA pg. 423 US edition) This was a mistake that could have cost lives or at the least had lifelong consequences. But I think the more important point is what he consciously did (or didn’t do) the whole school year. He admits “…so, in a way, Snape’s been right about me all along.” (PoA pg. 356) Because, at a time where he fully believed that Sirius was guilty of murder and was planning to kill Harry, Lupin never told Dumbledore that Sirius was an Animagus. He knew that had to be how Sirius was getting into the castle, even though he tried to convince himself otherwise, yet he said nothing despite believing that Sirius was a danger not only to Harry’s life but the lives of everyone in the castle. Why? Because he didn’t want to lose Dumbledore’s trust.

    Okay, now I hear someone yelling, “But Sirius was innocent so it doesn’t matter and Snape didn’t even care! He wanted them punished just because he hates them!” But there is nothing in the books to indicate that Snape ever knew that Sirius was innocent – until he saw Pettigrew on the Map, even Lupin believed Sirius to be guilty of the murders and out to kill Harry. Snape had even more reason to believe Sirius was guilty of murder since Sirius had literally tried to kill him when he told Snape how to get into the Shrieking Shack knowing that Lupin was inside as a fully transformed werewolf. So when Snape sees Lupin on the Map disappearing from sight, he is sure he is going to the Shrieking Shack to meet Sirius and follows him. But Snape is only there a short time before he is knocked unconscious, and he hears nothing in that time to indicate that Sirius is innocent, so when he comes to he still believes he was right all along about Lupin helping Sirius into the castle and aiding a murderer. Let’s take a closer look:

    >>What Snape knows before entering the Shrieking Shack:

    Everyone, including Dumbledore and Lupin, believes Sirius is guilty of the murders he is convicted of and is coming to Hogwarts to kill Harry Potter.

    Sirius got into the castle where he slashed the Fat Lady’s portrait and stood over Ron’s bed with a knife.

    Even Dumbledore believes Sirius is dangerous and doesn’t know how he got into the castle.

    Everyone, including Dumbledore and Lupin, believes Sirius was the Potter’s Secret Keeper and betrayed them to Voldemort.

    Sirius intentionally told Snape how to get into the Shrieking Shack, knowing that he would go in and knowing that Remus was inside as a fully transformed werewolf who would kill him.

    Lupin and Sirius were close friends and Lupin has a history of enabling Sirius in his actions and not stopping him.

    Lupin forgot to take his wolfsbane potion and was a danger to anyone around when he transformed.

    >>What Snape hears in the Shrieking Shack:

    (Snape enters the room when the door seems to open by itself (PoA pg. 352) and is knocked out by the Expelliarmus spells (PoA pg. 361) only hearing the portions described below.)

    How Lupin came to be a werewolf and at Hogwarts.

    How the Marauders became Animagi to keep him company.

    How Lupin broke his word to Dumbledore by leaving the Shack to wander the Hogwarts grounds and nearby village as a werewolf with the transformed Marauders – risking people’s lives despite “…near misses, many of them.” (PoA pg. 354)

    That Lupin kept from Dumbledore that Sirius was an Animagus, even when he knew that was how Sirius was gaining entry to the castle and while he still believed Sirius to be guilty of murder and out to kill Harry.

    That even now Sirius has no remorse for attempting to kill Snape saying, “It served him right.” (PoA pg. 356)

    >>What Snape DID NOT hear in the Shrieking Shack;

    That Peter Pettigrew was alive and in the form of Scabbers.

    That Peter Pettigrew had been the Potter’s Secret Keeper and the one who betrayed them to Voldemort.

    That Sirius was innocent of the murders but let himself be sent to Azkaban out of guilt for suggesting Peter as the Secret Keeper and over the Potter’s deaths.

    That Sirius had come to Hogwarts to kill Peter, not Harry.

    That Lupin and Sirius were planning to take Peter to the castle to turn him in and free Sirius.

    So at the end of the book Snape still believes that Sirius betrayed the Potters, is guilty of murder, and that he came to Hogwarts to kill Harry. (Things that everyone, including Dumbledore and Lupin, also believed.) He knows that Lupin kept from Dumbledore how Sirius could and did get into the castle and that he endangered students by forgetting to take his potion. Even Dumbledore admits that, “There is not a shred of proof to support Black’s story,” and “Sirius has not acted like an innocent man.” (HBP pg. 392) So without a shred of proof and having seen nothing in the Shack to back up Sirius’ claims of innocence, Snape is supposed to just accept that Sirius is innocent? He’s supposed to take Dumbledore’s word when he is the one who did nothing after Sirius attempted to kill Snape as a student? Snape genuinely thinks these two men are a continuing danger and he’s supposed to do nothing?

    As readers of the book we see sweet, kind Remus, and we have all the inside and backstory information that Rowling gives us, but inside the story Snape doesn’t know all this. Yet he didn’t out Lupin when he first got the job, which would be more likely if he’d just wanted to lose Lupin his job out of a grudge. Even with the werewolf essay, he didn’t directly tell, or even strongly hint, that it would apply to Lupin, which he could have easily done. And even Lupin admits that if Snape wanted to hurt him he could have easily done it by messing with the wolfsbane potion, but he didn’t, he made it perfectly every month. It wasn’t until Snape felt his suspicions were proven and Lupin had actually endangered students that he finally “let slip” the information.

    • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

      love for Snape love!
      and more love for long, well written and researched comments!

      • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

        I know, I keep hitting the up button because everyone has such
        brilliant points. I love it when people make me think of Harry Potter in ways
        that have never occurred to me before! Awesome job everyone!

    • MartinMiggs

      Snape is given the opportunity to hear what really happened but he flips out on Hermione (KEEP QUIET, YOU STUPID GIRL!) This is not about justice for him its about vengeance. He makes the potion correctly and doesn’t reveal Lupin is a werewolf because Dumbledore asked him to do this.

      • SnapesManyButtons

        Because surely an escaped murderer and his accomplice would have no reason to lie. And certainly couldn’t convince a group of teenagers to believe something that isn’t true. The whole wizarding world has believed that Sirius is guilty for 12 years, even Lupin never considered the possibility that he was innocent until he saw that Pettigrew was alive earlier that day. Shame on Snape for standing in front of the man who tried to kill him, who everyone believes betrayed Lily and James, killed 13 people and has come to Hogwarts to kill Harry and not giving him a chance to explain. Snape has zero reasons to suspect Sirius is innocent, he finds Sirius in a room with the boy he is supposed to be there to kill, and he knows that Sirius has escaped Azkaban and evaded the Dementors so he is fully capable of getting away if given half a chance. But he’s supposed to stand patiently and listen to explanations? I think anyone else – except maybe Dumbledore who has a history of letting Sirius “get away with murder” – would have done just what Snape did, but they wouldn’t have been accused of acting out of vengeance or a grudge.

        • MartinMiggs

          Snape has lost it. He’s in an all caps rage and this is not what’s going through his mind it’s about his chance at revenge. Besides the rat is there he could’ve used that same spell to force Peter into human form. Also if he has 0 reasons to believe then why is Harry not dead? Why has his “accomplice” not murdered Harry the oh so many times he had him alone? Clearly Snape is not concerned with anything but revenge and himself.

          • The Half Blood Princess

            I don’t think he even heard anyone say that Scabbers was Peter Pettigrew. And of course Snape is angry, in addition to having tried to murder him when he was 16 for no other reason that Sirius thought it was ‘amusing’ regularly tormented Snape when he was a kid, and as far as Snape knows, he betrayed Lily to Voldy. The fact that Snape feels guilty about Lily’s death would make him want to lash out at Sirius more, because from his perspective, here’s someone who’s more at fault than he is. As for the part about Harry being alive, like both of us have pointed out, Snape is pretty furious. So maybe he’s not calmly and rationally weighing evidence for Sirius and Lupin being guilty against Sirius and Lupin being innocent, but give me a character from HP who isn’t irrational when there that angry?

          • MartinMiggs

            Snape is being painted as someone who believes he is protecting everyone from a murderer but this isn’t true. When given the chance to hear Hermione what does he do? When Harry asks why didn’t Lupin kill Harry when he had so many chances to do so Snape ignores this information. His anger, his desire for revenge is what drives Snape.

          • The Half Blood Princess

            No one’s denying that Snape is angry, but he had a good reason to be angry, it wasn’t just ‘an old schoolboy grudge’. And Snape has had overwhelming evidence to believe that Sirius was guilty for 13 years, even DD thought that Sirius was guilty. Hermione doesn’t actually give info, she just said that Snape should listen. And if you were in Snape’s position, would you really go, “Oh this guy who once tried to eat me and I see trying to defend a murderer didn’t kill Harry when he was alone with him, he must be innocent. I can just go off on my merry way now.” In the next book, the man everyone believed to be Moody has plenty of opportunities to kill Harry but passed them up, does that make him innocent? When Snape walked in on Harry and Crouch along with McGonagall and DD, should he have said, “Well, he didn’t kill Harry when he got the chance so he must be innocent. I should just let him go off on his merry way.” He didn’t know at the time any reason why Crouch could have killed Harry. In the graveyard scene, Voldy spent ages talking before finally getting around to trying kill Harry, does that mean that Voldy wasn’t going to kill Harry at all because he had waited so long?

          • Why was Snape in the Shrieking Shack in the first place? I do not believe Snape has a “saving people thing.” Snape was not there to be a hero. Had it been an enemy unrelated to Snape’s childhood, Snape would be nowhere near the situation. Snape was there solely for revenge, and got it in the end by ratting out Lupin. Even in the end, after Snape failed to get his revenge, why did he rat out Lupin if he wasn’t after revenge?

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            My thoughts exactly!

          • SnapesManyButtons

            Surely Snape was after revenge when, after hearing Harry’s cryptic message when he was held by Umbridge, he checked on Sirius and later alerted the Order and searched the Forbidden Forest for Harry. (OotP pg 830) And when he tried to stop a Death Eater from killing Lupin during the Seven Potters incident by shooting a Sectumsempra at his hand, which accidentally hit George’s ear. (DH pg 688) And when he stopped Quirrel’s curse from knocking Harry off his broom, or took the Sword of Gryffindor to Harry in the Forest of Dean. Or when he tells Dumbledore he only watched people die “whom I could not save,” he must have saved only those being threatened by one of his childhood enemies.

            And what other reason would he have to rat out Lupin? Maybe because he heard Lupin say in the Shack that he had known all along that Sirius was an Animagus and knew that was how he was getting into the school, but failed to tell Dumbledore? Knew all school year, before Lupin knew Sirius was innocent and after Sirius stood over Ron’s bed with a knife? And because, whatever the reason, he forgot his potion and could have killed students when he transformed? Because he still believes that Sirius is guilty of murder and that Lupin helped him? Because Lupin proved himself unworthy of the trust Dumbledore put in him?

          • Firstly, your examples of when Snape is not after revenge are all valid, yet unrelated to the subject at hand. The moment we are discussing comes before all these other moments, and there is a lack of information in this moment than all these later moments.

            Secondly, why do you wish for it not to be about revenge?

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            from what I detect in the discussion there is one party who thinks it is important to regard all aspects of Snape’s motivations as valid – not just revenge; and another party who is appalled when characters just won’t listen; and another party who wants to show that Remus und Sirius are complex characters who do wrong things even if they are on the right side.
            I have been relistening to the Lupin bonus episode just today and I think it’s wonderful how we got here from talking about the reasons why DADA teachers left the job.

          • I want more than anything to post about why I think Lupin may be a pedophile, however I fear for the backlash and will choose to keep that to myself. Lupin has never been a favorite of mine, but in this situation I believe Lupin is “morel right than Snape. Lupin is far more level headed. Lupin is doing his best to use logic in the situation, logic which we have seen Snape use in his potions task in book 1, yet he seems to have none of in this situation. Where was the logic in ruining Lupin’s chance at a second chance? There was no thought process in ratting out Lupin. Only revenge.

          • SnapesManyButtons

            Wow, that’s a theory about Lupin I hadn’t heard before. It’s kinda sad that fear of backlash has to keep people quiet, but the internet is not a tolerant place. I think your theory would not be well accepted. They’re just characters in a book, we should be able to have our opinions and voice them without fear. But in the real world it isn’t always that easy.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            Do you two think that a level headed discussion about this particular theory is something that could fit into the 13+ thread in the forums, in Noah’s nook? Or is the topic it too sensitive for debating it online at all?

            Fear of backlash is an aspect to be regarded, trigger warnings and general caution too.

            But I think it is good that They’veTakenMyWheezy is comfortable mentioning this theory here without elaborating. I want Alohomora to be a place that let’s people mention their thoughts without fear of being embarrassed or even harrassed.

          • SnapesManyButtons

            Okay, last reply on this topic, I’m just repeating myself now, but it has been interesting!

            My examples are relevant to your claim that Snape wouldn’t be near the situation if not for his childhood enemies and that he wouldn’t have been there except for revenge. He clearly is capable of protecting and helping people unrelated to his childhood enemies and his need for revenge. He is committed to protecting Harry and has done so against people not childhood enemies so he would have gone to the Shack to protect Harry from any threat, childhood related or not.

            I admitted that he does want revenge, what I am arguing is that even someone who didn’t want revenge would have done exactly what Snape did (except maybe for Dumbledore.) That his desire for revenge doesn’t negate the perfectly valid reasons he had for not listening to the explanations and wanting to turn Sirius in. Dumbledore admits nobody will take the word of 13 year old kids, Sirius hasn’t acted innocent and there is not a shred of proof. Nobody except Lupin, Dumbledore and the Trio believe in Sirius’ innocence, nobody. But Snape is blamed for believing what everyone else believes.

            Okay, we’ve reached the point of diminishing returns on this topic. Both sides are represented multiple times and it’s time to move on. But wow, it’s been kinda fun.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            I say, ANOTHER!

          • MartinMiggs

            1) Snape is in total control of the situation. He doesn’t have to worry about losing his chance to turn in Sirius and Lupin to the Dementors they have time to hear it so if I were in his shoes I would certainly like to hear Hermione’s story even just to laugh at if if she just happened to be confounded.
            2) Little Crouch was about to kill Harry as Dumbledore got into the room there’s a big difference!
            3) Voldemort always ends up trying to kill Harry whenever they meet face to face so I have no idea what you’re talking about

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            That’s a really brilliant point to make. Something I had
            never thought of. Wouldn’t the difference be though that the trio was trying to
            tell Snape to listen? And Snape had time to insult Hermione, by calling her
            stupid and telling her to be quiet? He was the last person in the room. In the
            previous book, Snape is accompanied by Dumbledore and McGonagall when they
            rescue Harry. Dumbledore tells Harry that the real Moody would not have removed
            Harry from his presence, and that’s how he knew something was wrong. In this
            case, the trio and Lupin, were trying to tell Snape to listen, and he only had
            eyes for revenge on Black. We absolutely cannot blame him for believing that Black
            was guilty, or that Lupin may have been helping him, but his old schoolboy
            grudge prevented him from listening to anyone, and he just attacked. So he let
            his emotions get way out of hand.

            But can we really blame him? After what James did to him in
            their fifth year, and the mean trick Sirius played on him? No, but enough time
            had passed that he should have given people the benefit of the doubt. I
            understand why he didn’t do that for the adults, given their history, and the
            fact that he thought Lupin was Black’s accomplice, but he really shouldn’t have
            said the things he said to Hermione. He should have been able to remain calm.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            Amen, brilliantly worded :-)!

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            exactly!!!!!!

          • SnapesManyButtons

            Firstly, I noted in my original post that nobody ever said in Snape’s presence that Pettigrew was alive or in the form of a rat. He has no reason to believe Sirius is innocent. Yes, he wants revenge! He believes that Sirius betrayed the only person he ever loved, he believes Sirius tried to kill HIM, he believes Sirius intends to kill Harry, he believes Sirius killed 13 people. He may not believe Lupin capable of killing Harry, he was always the enabler, doing nothing to stop Jame and Sirius in their actions, and the fact that Harry isn’t killed immediately isn’t proof that Sirius doesn’t plan to kill him. Is that what anyone who confronts an escaped fugitive who has recently stood over the bed of a student with a knife, who is in the room with someone he is thought to be intending to kill and who is considered deranged and dangerous by the entire community is supposed to do, stop and give them time to explain why they are innocent? I still say if anyone besides Snape had come into that room they would have tried to take Sirius in too, and wouldn’t have listened to any claims of innocence either.

          • MartinMiggs

            yet it’s not Sirius or Remus (in Snape’s eyes the guilty ones) who basically say hold on there’s a mistake it’s Hermione (the person who would’ve been a murder victim of Sirius, the logical one, the one without a grudge against Snape, etc) who speaks up. Just a moment ago when she thought she was in danger she was calling for help. Why is the guy who supposedly wants to murder Harry not doing so? Why is Harry protecting the guy who supposedly murdered his parents? This whole situation in the eyes of a sensible and reasonable person is very strange and they would want to immediately know what is going on.
            Yet Snape is not curious about whats going on because he is not being sensible or reasonable. What is the rush to get the dementor’s kiss? It’s not like Remus or Sirius can run anywhere. It’s not like Jim and his dementor coworkers are going anywhere because they don’t have unions to stop the Ministry from working 24/7 (Sidenote Noah if you’re reading this you need to start this movement). Snape is acting purely out of hatred and anger and I can’t excuse him for holding a grudge like this for decades and letting 2 men experience something worse than death.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            Sound of smashing cup… ANOTHER!

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            … ANOTHER!

        • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

          , I
          never believed that Sirius was actually trying to kill Snape when they were 15.
          Black is not that evil. He might be mischievous, he might be mean to Snape,
          even along with James, positively deplorable toward him, but he’s not a
          murderer. I think the only time he tries to kill someone is when it’s trying to
          kill Peter. Lupin and Snape say that it was a horrible joke. Black would never
          want it to get that out of hand, it was an idiotic mistake, and a very very
          mean joke, but not attempted murder. As Black himself later says, “a lot of
          people are idiots at 15” and I couldn’t agree more.

          • SnapesManyButtons

            Disclaimer: I know I won’t convince any Snape Haters or Marauder Lovers, but I do appreciate a dialogue on the subject and the chance to give my views.

            Even Lupin says that James “went after Snape and pulled him back, at great risk to his life…” If James’ life was in danger, surely Snape’s was too. What do you think Black thought would happen when Snape walked into a small room with a fully transformed werewolf? And if he didn’t want it to go too far, why didn’t Black himself go into the tunnel to stop Snape before he got to the werewolf? It’d be like sending someone into a cave knowing a fully awake Grizzly bear was in there, not making any attempt to stop them, and then calling it a joke. Even Harry didn’t buy that “a lot of kids are idiots at 15” line, he says “I’m 15,” knowing that nobody he knows of that age would do such a thing. Plus, if it was just a mean joke, not meant to get out of hand, wouldn’t Black be horrified, or at least sorry, that he almost got not only Snape, but James killed? But he doesn’t even seem to care about the danger James was put in, he just says it served Snape right.

    • The Half Blood Princess

      I only have a couple of things to add.
      1.) Snape believed Sirius betrayed Lily at the time. You mentioned this, but didn’t put much emphasis on that point. It’s something I feel is often forgotten, and in the scene, Snape is probably described at his angriest. That’s why. Also, I think that we can agree that Snape would probably want revenge on Wormtail if he knew it was Wormtail that betrayed Lily, so the fact that he didn’t try to catch Wormtail supports the point that he didn’t know it was him.
      2.) Snape hasn’t just been keeping quiet all year, he’s been keeping quiet since his 5th year, when he found out that Lupin was a werewolf after he almost ATE him. In fan fiction, the explanation I see most often is that DD threatened to expel him if Lupin’s werewolfness got out. But that’s only a reason why Snape wouldn’t spread the fact that Lupin was a werewolf to the entire school. In the prince’s tale, we see Snape and Lily have an argument where they reference the shrieking shack incident, showing it’s already happened. But although Snape says he thinks Lupin is a werewolf, he doesn’t say that he knows Lupin is a werewolf to Lily, who he probably trusts not to spread the information to the entire school.

    • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

      A
      couple of thoughts on the whole Snape, Lupin, Sirius Black thing. I think Lupin only forgot to take his wolfsbane potion, (and
      if I’m wrong please let me know, because I can’t remember why I have this idea,
      I think it is stated in the book) but he only forgot to take his potion because
      he saw Sirius on the map. Lupin went down to the shack to kill Peter and meet
      up with Black, because and in the excitement forgot all about his potion. Was
      it irresponsible, maybe, but more likely, it was just a huge unfortunate
      coincidence of bad timing. Sort of like if a person with a chronic illness
      forgets to take their once a month medication at the appropriate time. He came
      down there, in part, to protect the trio, and yes, he probably should have
      remembered the potion before he went down there, but he was so consumed with
      everything else that was going on that he made a simple, yet drastic mistake.
      It probably wouldn’t have happened again, but because of the curse on the DA DA
      job, he was only going to be able to keep that position for a year anyway.

      The reason I’ve always interpreted Lupin being ratted out as
      revenge is the timing of when Snape betrays Lupin. He does it the morning after
      these events, not right after. Lupin himself says that he was just really angry
      at losing that order of Marlin first-class, and that was the grain that tipped
      the scale. Otherwise, he would have remained loyal to Dumbledore. But because
      of everything that happened last night, you’re right, he does not know even the
      morning after that Sirius is innocent, he still believes that Sirius escaped,
      and so he’s furious about that, and he believes that Lupin was his accomplice,
      even after Dumbledore talked to him about it. So Lupin himself makes it clear
      to me that it’s ultimately because of revenge that Snape told on him, not
      concern for anyone’s welfare. We know that Dumbledore never told anyone the
      whole truth until the orders snuffles to transform into a human at the end of
      book 4. Everyone except the trio, and especially Snape, is really shocked at
      his appearance in the hospital wing. If Snape really still did believe that
      Lupin was Sirius’s accomplice though, he would have done his utmost to have
      Lupin arrested, which he did try. Perhaps Dumbledore was unable to convince him
      of Lupin’s innocence, but I always thought that he was eventually informed by
      Dumbledore, but was angry that after all he had done to both protect the trio
      and catch black, that not only was black gone, but he doesn’t get the credit he
      deserves. I got the impression he knew at that point that Lupin was innocent,
      but still was holding a huge grudge against him for what happened the previous
      night.

      Lastly, about Lupin not telling Dumbledore about how Black gone
      into the castle, Lupin himself addresses this. He convinced himself that black
      was using dark magic to get into the castle because he didn’t want to admit to
      himself or the headmaster that something he had created had helped his former
      best friend, whom he then thought was a murderer, get into the castle. He managed
      to convince himself of this because he didn’t want to lose Dumbledore’s trust.
      Dumbledore’s trust means everything to him as he himself said. Think of the
      information we learn about his life through Pottermore. Poor poor Lupin was a
      serious outcast, probably more than anyone else in the series because of his
      werewolf condition. Yes he does make serious mistakes, but considering his
      background, he’s a far better person than Snape was. As proof of that, remember
      that he not only taught Harry how to cast a Petronas on his own time, he also
      befriended him, and took away the map to protect him.

      • SnapesManyButtons

        Lupin admits that in a way Snape had been right about him because he knew all along he should have told Dumbledore about Sirius being an Animagus and felt bad that he hadn’t. I could see wanting to keep Dumbledore’s trust, but not at the risk of people’s lives, especially not Harry’s life. If he even suspected that Sirius was getting into the castle as an Animagus, he should have told Dumbledore right away, or after the painting was slashed, or after Ron found him standing over him with a knife.

        On that note, does Lupin deserve Dumbledore’s trust? As a student he broke the rules Dumbledore set for him coming to the school. He went out as a full werewolf among students and villagers despite many close calls. As an adult he keeps information from Dumbledore about Sirius at a time when he fully believed Sirius was dangerous. He is risking lives over something he doesn’t even really deserve to have.

        Nobody is arguing that Snape is a good person, or certainly not a better person than anyone else, just that with the knowledge that he had and the situation he was in it was not unreasonable for him to not stop to listen to 13-year olds or an escaped murder and his accomplice before turning them in. We know outside of the book that Peter is there and could absolve Sirius, but Snape has no idea.

        • MartinMiggs

          but none of this is why Snape decides to expose Lupin

        • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

          I bow to the brilliance of this comment! You have me
          convinced that there are parts of Snape and Lupin that are jerks, even though I
          love both of them so much. I do not love Snape. He’s too bad to love, but he is
          also a tragic figure and he needs people to love and care for him, so if you
          are that person, you have a bigger heart than I do and I applaud you!!! If he
          had had more love, he certainly would have turned out differently. I think that
          if he had been in a different house even, like Gryffindor with Lily, he would
          have turned out very differently.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            we sort too soon.
            why not offer kids to trade places if they’re not happy in their house after a certain time?

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            In a perfect world I would be a Griffinpuff. I have been
            sorted into Hufflepuff way more than any other house combined on Pottermore,
            but I love Gyriffindor. I would ask the sorting hat if I could spend half my
            time sleeping in one dorm near the kitchens, and the other half sleeping in a
            seventh floor tower.

          • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

            I support that.
            And please no more closing time for the library! Just put hammocks in there and let us Ravenclaws sleep there if we’re too tired to carry our mountain of books upstairs.

          • KatieBelleLiquidLuck-Snuffles

            Yes , and do not forget the slumber party in the RR every month

    • SnapesManyButtons

      Thank you everyone for commenting without being ugly about it. I do enjoy a good discussion about Snape when people can be reasonable and not just throwing out insults. It doesn’t always happen that way. I know there isn’t a topic on Earth that everyone agrees on, but at least when we can talk back and forth reasonably it is fun to exchange ideas and hear other viewpoints.Heck there are even people out there who think Harry Potter is a terrible series and poorly done. It takes all kinds to make a world.

  • SnapesManyButtons

    Something I found years ago in a book my daughter had:

    “It can’t be stressed enough that rightness and wrongness seem about the same when performed by people you can’t stand. So all of you people out there that we don’t like, take note of this: Whether you are Right or Wrong, we’re just going to treat it like you’re Wrong. So don’t bother working too hard to get it Right.”
    -Dear Dumb Diary #7 by Jim Benton

    I apply it to people who can’t find one single good thing about Snape, but if you are one of them, you can apply it to how Snape feels about everyone else.

    • Lisa

      I think all characters get both hate and love from fans, and they all get treated unfairly in some discussions. It’s just that with some characters, their fans really take offense whenever someone criticizes the character or doesn’t show them the amount of love the fan thinks the character deserves. I think Snape is an interesting character but just like everyone else, he’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. And that’s okay, IMO. It’s the same with every single character and it’s a sign of them being well-written. Only a character with no personality will be liked by everyone (or at least not disliked). When characters arouse strong feelings in readers, whatever those feelings might be, it’s a good thing.

  • Robert Galbraith

    I just want to say that this book can be called as The chamber of secrets