Episode 75 – GoF 37: Yay, Death!

Is it the end of the book or the beginning of a whole new story? Join Michael, Eric, Kat and guest host Ameer as they discuss Chapter 37 of Goblet of Fire, “The Beginning.”

On Episode 75 we discuss…

→ Episode 74 Recap: Prior Priori? Phoenix Technicalities; Amazing Conversations
→ PQOTW Responses
→ Traumatised Harry and Disappearing Diggorys
→ Setting Clues
→ Desperately Seeking Thestrals
→ Illegal Bugging
Question of the Week
→ Check out the Alohomora! Store

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  • AccioPotassium!

    I feel there is still more to discuss on Rita Skeeter’s illegal bugging situation. What if Skeeter broke her word with Hermione Granger & decided to risk Hermione’s jarring blackmail warning? Would the Ministry of Magic believe Miss Granger’s account on Rita Skeeter’s unlawful creepy-crawly spying activity? We see in the Order of the Phoenix how the Ministry of Magic & Daily Prophet rejects Harry Potter’s story in the most dreadful means. Would they regard Hermione’s comments as being childish, or reject her story simply on the basis of being close to the chosen one? Or would the Ministry of Magic take the opportunity to exterminate their pest problem?

    • thegiantsquid

      I always wondered, what would Hermione actually do if Rita Skeeter didn’t stay quiet? Is Rita really afraid of a fifteen year old girl? I think the Ministry would take Hermione seriously at all. All they would have to do is check back through Rita’s recent stories to see that Rita had written mean things about Hermione and conclude that Hermione is just trying to get revenge. Why would they arrest Rita on an angry teenager’s word?

      • Elvis Gaunt

        Probably there are ways to check if a person is an animagus or not. In PoA, we see Sirius and Lupin forcing Scabbers to become Peter. Maybe there is a way to force an animagus to convert to their animal form. That way, Hermione can demonstrate it. I’m sure she would have learnt the necessary spell before approaching a Ministry official with her complaint. Or maybe she took snapshots of Rita in her beetle form with the markings of her spectacles and all.
        At any rate, Rita seems to take Hermione’s threat seriously. In OoTP, we see Rita initially reluctant to do the interview with Harry for free, but once Hermione repeats her threat, she agrees saying that she supposes she has no other choice.

        • thegiantsquid

          Oooh, that’s a good point. It does seem logical that if there is a spell to force someone to transform out, there would be one to force them to transform in. You’re right, Rita does take the threat pretty seriously, so I figured something must happen, but I just wasn’t sure what.

    • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

      I think the Ministry would at least look into it. Although we don’t know much about the owners of the Prophet, we do know they sometimes do the Ministries bidding. But are they also buying the propaganda the Ministry is selling or are they being strong-handed into it like Wormtail was by Voldemort in the graveyard(can’t resist the hand jokes)? I think it’s likely they might not have much of a choice in the matter. So maybe there are some morally good people running the Prophet. The question i’m getting at is how would the brass at the Prophet react to discovering Rita was breaking laws? Would they not care because she was producing “good” stories or would they not want a lawbreaker associated with them? When it comes to the Ministry i’m not sure if Fudge or some higher ups would care if Rita was fired or tossed in Azkaban. I assume they could still use the Prophet to their advantage. So maybe someone from the department that deals with animagi registration( not sure what department off the top of my head) would properly punish Rita. I’m just not too sure Fudge would get involved or pull strings. One way or another I believe that her breaking the law would be harmful to her career and or public image.

      • AccioPotassium!

        I think the Daily Prophet would stand behind Rita Skeeter in any situation. The amount of Galleons she has made for the Daily Prophet over the years is too great of a pries to pay in letting her go. Also as thegiantsquid’s mentions above, the prophet would definitely use the revenge motive in their favor, and print many horrible stories on attention seeking Harry Potter & his manipulative girlfriend. I feel the Ministry of Magic wouldn’t want the newly controlled Daily Prophet to be bashed in the public opinion, especially after publishing false Dumbledore/Potter stories.

    • PixieDragon137

      Knowing Hermoinie, she had probably taken some extra precautions beside blackmail to make sure that Rita stayed true her word. Like making her sign a hexed parchment like the one in OOTP,

      I wonder how long she kept Rita in the jar and what she did with her. She probably had to feed her and clean out her jar full of beetle poop. She must’ve even given the jar to Crookshanks to play with. Now that must have been scary for Rita.

      I just had a thought: When a person changes into an animagus, does the transformation have any effect on their diet? i don’t know what beetles eat but I assume its twigs and leaves, because that’s what Hermoine put in the jar containing beetle Rita (Beeta?). We know Sirius lived off rats and such, but even if that was because he had nothing to eat, I wonder if the transformation made it easier for him to stomach it.

      • AccioPotassium!

        I’m assuming when someone changes into their animagus form, all bodily functions would transform to the dictated creature. So being in an animagus form probably makes the person able to eat the designated diet of the animal. This starts to be rather sickening once I’ve realized that Rita maybe able to consume animal feces.

  • thegiantsquid

    Two things about Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle.
    1. On page 722, during Dumbledore’s speech about how Cedric was murdered by Voldemort, Harry looks over to the Slytherin table and sees “Draco Malfoy muttering something to Crabbe and Goyle.” What do you think he’s saying? How much do you think that they know? I can’t imagine that their fathers would have been writing to them at school to talk about the night at the graveyard, particularly Lucius.
    2. I know they’re huge jerks, but after Harry, Ron, Hermione, Fred, and George curse them, the three are just kicked out into the hallway, unconscious, for the entire rest of the train ride. But the part that really gets me is that once the train has stopped and people start exiting, no one even stops to help them. Harry stays behind to give Fred and George the Galleons, and once they leave, Malfoy and Co. are still lying there, knocked out and covered in tentacles. Are the students just used to this kind of thing happening and don’t notice, or are the three of them that unpopular?

    • Elvis Gaunt

      Even I wondered about the second point made by you. Why didn’t Pansy come looking for her Draco.

      • thegiantsquid

        It just seems really strange that no one cared. I didn’t even think about Pansy!

    • AccioPotassium!

      The way they treated the Slytherin trio reminds me of how the marauders treated Severus Snape in their fifth year. What they did is simply unacceptable for their age, and it doesn’t matter how awful Draco Malfoy’s comments were at the time, because two wrongs don’t make a right.

      • thegiantsquid

        Right! Their attitudes are so dismissive! When I was a kid I probably read that and thought, “Ha! Justice!” but reading it now as an adult, it kind of upset me. Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle are idiots and jerks and whatever, but you can’t just treat people like the trio and the twins treated them.

  • missuskitty

    Why does their pinterest link go to tumblr? : O

  • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

    Just wanted to raise a question because I feel like it may never be addressed in future episodes. Any thoughts or theories on what happened to Bagman? Would he really just quit a great job at the ministry and flee because he owed the goblins money? What could the goblins really do? Being a higher profile figure in the Ministry I doubt the goblins could harm him; most wizards look down on goblins anyway including some from the ministry. Could the goblins take legal action? Did Bagman flee the country? Did the goblins catch him and get revenge? Does the Ministry even know what happened?

    • thegiantsquid

      I was wondering the same thing and I couldn’t find any information. The Wiki just says that after he “ran for it” his whereabouts have been unknown. J.K. Rowling should totally mention what happens to him on Pottermore. I bet the goblins chased him down, though, in the end.

      • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

        I think and hope she will post it on Pottermore. Also some more info on Crouch

    • AccioPotassium!

      I’m sure Ludo collected his bags & flew away in his yellow Quidditch uniform over the forbidden forest. While the goblins were chasing behind him, Ludo went to cast Reducto at the pursuing goblins, however he accidentally grabbed one of Fred & George’s fake wands, which suddenly turned into a rat’s tail! Distracted by his fool’s wand, Ludo crashed straight into the Weeping Willow! He is now cleaning up after the dragons in Gringotts for punishment for his gambling addiction.

      • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

        Lol I hope that’s what happened to him. That or he was on the run in the wilderness for a few days and had only a small sack of food to live on. He accidentally eats a Canary Cream then is eaten by an owl

        • AccioPotassium!

          You have forgotten, just as the owl was in reach for the fatal kill, an arrow was shot in the moonlit forest. The arrow went straight to its intended target, leaving Pigwidgeon only slightly damage in the left wing. Ludo Bagman suddenly burst in his true form only a few meters away when the sound of horse movement was knowable. Horrify, Ludo ran as fast as anyone being in almost starvation could, however a tree had another idea, and with a rather amusing thump sound, Bagman became unconscious. The centaur ignored the foolish man, and went straight to the crying owl. Firenze was able to cure the little creatureback to his normal condition with some natural herbs. The centaur had no better option, but to take the strange yellow dressed man back to his home. Mr. Bagman awoke in a nasty prison sale with the creature that saved him only a few days ago.
          He was their prisoner for about a year without much incident, other than when Dolores Umbridge was capture by the tribe. Dumbledore had offered to take him away from the centaurs, but Ludo refuse to leave, because of the danger of his goblins depts. Ludo Bagman was finally offered a chance to become an honorary centaur if he could complete a task. The task was to kill the king spider of the forest. He decided to take the task, and with some dumfounded luck, and the help of the Ford Anglia, he defeated Aragog in a most intense fashion.
          He stayed with the centaurs for most of his life. He was the first to bring the game of Quidditch to the fellow members of his tribe, who later on beat the Chudley Cannons in the legendary championship of the year of 2003.

  • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

    This was a great episode there a couple points I want to talk about.
    1) I think it was the right time for Dumbledore to be blunt and reveal Cedric’s murder. I think it set the tone for the students; Dumbledore is held in high regards with the majority of the community at this time and hearing it directly from him would emphasize how serious the matter is. Also I think Dumbledore wanted the students to hear it from him before the Ministry and Prophet started bashing him and Harry and filling the students head with other ideas. I’m sure he anticipated this.
    2) I agree that using Rita to Hermione and Harry’s advantage earlier might have helped matters in the long run, but would it have been possible? I believe for any story published on the matter of Voldemort’s return there would have to be an interview from Harry. For the story to be taken seriously or be credible anyway. We know this is true because in OTP he gives this interview. But is Harry in any state to retell this story in depth again at this point? He could barely even tell Dumbledore and Sirius, so I think it highly unlikely he’d do an interview (let alone with Rita) at this particular point. Perhaps more importantly though, I’m not sure the trio was aware of how the Ministry was going to end up treating the matter. I doubt they would even think they’d need to do an interview. Sure they saw how Fudge reacted but did they know it would go to the extreme that it ends up being?
    3) I love how this book ends with “the beginning” because this really is the beginning of the end. Voldemort is back!

    • thegiantsquid

      About Dumbledore: I agree. He waited a proper amount of time. The initial shock was wearing off, so it wasn’t like he was pouring new horrifying information on top of fresh wounds, but it was also still recent enough that the information really meant something. Also, having all the students (from each of the schools) in the Hall all at once for an important occasion sets the tone. I think your point about Dumbledore wanting to give them the truth before the Prophet started “reporting” it is also very important. In OoTP, even some of Harry’s friends (Seamus!) don’t believe him and turn against him, but imagine how much worse it might have been if the school had kept it all hushed up and then they felt only the Prophet was “brave” enough to tell them the “truth.”

      • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

        You’re right about the other schools being present; it emphasized to them as well the Siriusness of the matter. We know Voldemort wouldn’t have stopped after conquering the UK

        • CentaurSeeker121

          Dumbledore mentions how important it is, at this point more than ever, to stand united or else the magical world would fall. A house divided within itself cannot stand. I think he was trying to get them to see how important this was, to remember what happened to Cedric, and that only by making the right choice (not the easy one) could they stop it from happening to someone else.

    • Elvis Gaunt

      Also, at this stage, Hermione does not know anyone who will be willing to publish the interview. Its only through DA that Hermione becomes friendly with Luna and gets her dad to accept the story.

      • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

        Great point

      • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

        I guess the Prophet is like Fox News or CNN lol.

        • Elvis Gaunt

          I am from India. I don’t know what Fox News and CNN are like. I know about the Prophet though 🙂

    • Silverdoe25

      Dumbledore knew already that he was going to have an uphill battle ahead of him. Fudge already made it pretty clear that he was not willing to accept that Voldemort was back. I think Dumbledore had to make the statement to the students before they were all going to be potentially influenced by their families or other Ministry propaganda.

    • CentaurSeeker121

      I absolutely agree that Dumbledore did the right thing in telling the students the truth. I think it gave them a chance to form their own opinions BEFORE the Prophet slammed them with all of the bad stuff over the summer.

      • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

        Agreed. As Dumbledore once said, “The truth is a dangerous thing and therefore must be treated with caution.” or something like that….but in this case he handled it correctly

  • WhatTheGrace

    I’ve finally caught up on all the episodes! I was just wondering, this idea came to me when Micah T. was on the show a few weeks back (i’m also a GOO listener)…
    I think it would be really interesting if the Harry potter books – more specifically GOF was made into a TV series and split into 10 episodes and in the penultimate episode we discovered (this was really the biggest reveal plot wise to me when first reading the book) that of course Moody isn’t really Moody.
    I think especially with the tasks that this book would have been absolutely perfect to watch as a TV show where the on-going mysteries of who put Harry’s name in the Goblet, whether he would survive each task, Voldemort’s return, the introduction of the schools and different story lines/ perspectives (e.g. Hagrid being a Half Giant etc. Snape being a Death Eater etc.) would have made for some brilliant story arcs and cliffhangers.

    I’ve really enjoyed this re-read of GOF, particularly as it was my favourite book when i was a lot younger (POA is now :D) I’m really looking forward to the OOTP re-read as this was (and still is) the book i struggled with most getting through and understanding as a 10 year old. That’s probably why i haven’t really re-read it in its entirety since then!

    • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

      I’ve been thinking the same thing for a while. These books would make a great TV series. Can’t be worse than the movies right?

  • Elvis Gaunt

    I have a few more questions about thestrals. Can muggles who have seen death see them. What about other magical species like House-Elves, Giants, Hags etc? Do they have to see the death of a member of their own species or that of a human?
    Can animals see them? What about animals like bats that don’t really see but perceive through echo. What about other members of their Genus (if that is the name), their cousins so to say, other giant horses like Abraxans?

    • ArchdukeSeverus

      I don’t think that any muggles can see thestrals as thestrals are explicitly magical creatures.
      Probably any magical creature that has the capacity to feel proper grief at the death of another (no matter what species) should probably be able to see them. J.K.Rowling does so much to indicate that beings like house elves and giants etc have feelings that I am almost sure they are capable of seeing thestrals. Less intellegent creatures probably won’t be able to see Thestrals but in the bat scenario I think that they can sense it. The evidence I would use to support this is that Ron and the others can still feel the thestrals even though they haven’t seen death. For this reason I think that a muggle is able to walk into a thestral if they encountered one in the street that they couldn’t see.
      An interesting question might be whether people can hear thestrals when they haven’t seen death.

  • Elvis Gaunt

    Draco supports Cedric during the tournament, not Krum. He makes those Support Cedric Diggory/ Potter Stinks badges. He has to support one of the Hogwarts champions. Only then will he gain the support of the other houses against Harry.

  • Snape’sLonelyShampoo

    About the Thestrals: Rowling has always been pretty clear in interviews over the years that one of the over arching themes of the series is death and the acceptance of death. She has often referred to the passing of those close to her and talked about the impact this has had on her writing and the development of Harry’s character.

    With this in mind, it seems likely that the Thestrals remained invisible at the end of book 4 because Jo was making a deliberate point about the grieving process. Throughout the series, we see Rowling showing the long-term effects of death and the different ways of dealing with it (Harry the orphan, the lessons learned from the mirror of Erised, distant memories of his parents’ deaths returning to haunt, the role of the Hogwarts ghosts, Voldemort’s violent fear of it and Dumbledore’s peaceful acceptance of it) . At the end of book 4, for the first time in the fictional present we see Harry in the aftermath of witnessing a death. This was the perfect opportunity for Jo to depict the sequence of feelings and actions that might follow an unexpected death. At the end of the book Harry is clearly in shock and unable to understand the full truth of Cedric’s passing (how can he, it would be difficult enough to immediately accept Voldemort’s return, let alone the first death harry ever witnessed). The thestrals remain invisible to Harry because they are shown only to those who fully accepted the death that they have witnessed. Harry is clearly not at the acceptance stage at the end of book 4. By the time we meet emo Harry in book 5, he is still angry and churning over the death in his mind. Privet drive is almost a slymbol if his sense of loss, anger and confusion, but not yet acceptance. Then, on re-entering the reality of the wizarding world at Grimauld Place, he gets called out by his friends and given some sense of perspective by Sirius and also by the re-emergence of the Order. It’s recreation and his return to the wizarding world brings harry back from his dream(nightmare) world in privet drive into the reality of his situation, including the reality of Cedric’s death, so by the time he goes back to school, he is in full understanding of the reality of Cedric’s death and so is able to see the thestrals, even if he’s still pretty emo.

    As a secondary point, the thestrals play such a big role in book 5, that when writing book 4 Rowling must have had some idea that they would appear at a later time in a significant role. I don’t think it was simply a mistake that they remained invisible…

    What a brain dump! Sorry if this was a bit long! Love the podcast 🙂 xxxx

    • InfestedWithNargles

      Great response, and I absolutely agree that Harry not being able to see the thestrals is a deliberate point by JKR. I’d like to add that I think it’s unfair to refer to “emo Harry” as such at the beginning of book 5. It’s kind of like taking a soldier out of Afghanistan after a very rough deployment, possibly where they saw friends die, sticking them in the civilian world where EVERYTHING is different, and then wondering why they don’t act normally. I think Harry’s behavior throughout the book is understandable when taken into context and applied to our world.

      • Snape’sLonelyShampoo

        Good point. I resorted to using a quick way of describing it as my comment was already really long, but if Harry was real I’d never dismiss what is probably PTSD as ’emo’!

        • Thestral

          Great points all of you, and I don’t even know if it’s
          actual PTSD or not, infested might know, but I know he’s not being given the
          support he needs to process and grieve, which probably makes things 10 times
          worse. He is stuck for the summer with his abusive aunt and uncle, and a cousin
          who makes fun of his nightmares. He has no real support from the magical world,
          and is completely cut off from it. As I said in my earlier comments, he has no
          way to even begin assuage grief during that summer. I don’t think his grief
          over Cedric goes to the back of his mind until it is replaced by a much bigger
          loss, that of Sirius.

  • DolphinPatronus

    Great episode as usual. For the second week in a row I have very little to comment on because you all basically covered everything I was thinking. I’m looking forward to the movie viewing. I’m planning on arranging my schedule around it in fact. 🙂

  • queenmaeve

    About Karkaroff: this chapter shows how bad he really is at being a headmaster. He lets the students do all the work on the way to Hogwarts and then abandons them without a second thought. I don’t think he was ever interested in teaching, he wanted the power and influence that came with the position. Besides, a former Death Eater getting a job as headmaster at Durmstrang proves how corrupt the school was at the time. Hopefully, this changed with Karkaroff’s departure.

  • SupLordV

    When it comes to the Thestrals, I’ve always seen them as, not an omen of death, but instead an omen of life. I think if they truly were to represent a “death omen,” Harry would have been able to see them right off the bat because it would have been a shocking narrative point. Death is shocking! Instead, Jo has chosen for us to find them when Harry is in this conflicted state, where he is battling a lot of his emotions, and that is when we first meet the Thestrals. The fact that the death you see has to “sink in” is a perfect way to say, in order to see these fragile and misunderstood creatures, you have to accept the hard truth that you saw someone pass away. The Thestrals are there in the narrative to say “you can see me, you can move on and live your life; it is okay.”

    • the head girl

      I absolutely agree with this. I strongly disagreed with Eric’s assertion that just because thestrals are so closely associated with death that they are necessarily Dark creatures. Death in and of itself is a natural, neutral part of life – it’s the context surrounding the death that makes it what it is. If Harry had seen his grandma peacefully pass away in her sleep, it would have the exact same ultimate effect that seeing Cedric die violently had: either way, he’d be able to see the thestrals.

      • BluntsSnitches&Bathsalts

        I also completely disagreed with Eric. Not only can they be seen as omens of life, as SupLordV pointed out, but they are also misunderstood. They don’t seem harmful or vicious in any way. I see a big difference between Thestrals and creatures I consider “dark” like Inferi, dementors, and boggarts

  • ArchdukeSeverus

    I was wondering what happened to the skrewts after the third task. Were they all released into the forest, this seems to be a Hagrid thing to do. If so I wonder if they were ever encountered again by Grawp or Voldemort or someone else that goes into the forest. I can imagine the death eaters going through the forest with Hagrid captured and the skrewts coming out to defend their mother, Hagrid.

    • AccioPotassium!

      In this chapter Hagrid mentions there is only one Blast-Ended Skrewt left. So it would be unlikely to encounter the last Skrewt in the forest, however it would be rather amusing to see Death Eaters running for their lives because of the last great Skrewt.

      • thegiantsquid

        They talked on the show before about how we aren’t sure if Hagrid bred the skrewts with Ministry permission or not. If he didn’t have permission, the Ministry may have confiscated the last skrewt after the third task. If he had permission, they might still have taken it so they could “take care of it.”

        But I can totally see Hagrid releasing it into the Forbidden Forest, tearfully waving goodbye, yelling, “‘Bye Blasty! Mummy loves you!” And then the skrewt kills a unicorn or something.

  • ArchdukeSeverus

    We see at the ending feast Snape giving Harry a funny look. I was wondering what the point of this was. Maybe it is just a way for Jo to bring up the topic of Snapes ‘job’ for Dumbledore. I would like to think though that Snape may be giving Harry the look because of the experience in the graveyard, specifically that involved with Lily. I would think that Dumbledore would have told Snape about this event. Also I thought that it might be possible that Voldemort was going on and on about Harry when Snape went to meet him and Snape is taking particular notice of Harry because of this.

    • thegiantsquid

      Maybe Snape got conflicting stories from Dumbledore and Voldemort and he’s trying to reconcile them in his head.

      Or maybe he’s realizing that Harry isn’t actually stupid after hearing from both Dumbledore and Voldemort what Harry accomplished and Snape is feeling, gasp, some respect for Harry??

  • QuibblerKat

    If anyone is interested, I found this interview:
    Q: In the fifth book, Harry can see the Thestrals. Can you?

    A: Yes, I can, definitely. That is a really good question, because it enables me to clear up a point. The letters that I’ve had about the Thestrals! Everyone has said to me that Harry saw people die before could see the Thestrals. Just to clear this up once and for all, this was not a mistake. I would be the first to say that I have made mistakes in the books, but this was not a mistake. I really thought this one through.

    Harry did not see his parents die. He was one year old and in a cot at the time. Although you never see that scene, I wrote it and then cut it. He didn’t see it; he was too young to appreciate it. When you find out about the Thestrals, you find that you can see them only when you really understand death in a broader sense, when you really know what it means.

    Someone said that Harry saw Quirrell die, but that is not true. He was unconscious when Quirrell died, in Philosopher’s Stone. He did not know until he came around that Quirrell had died when Voldemort left his body.

    Then you have Cedric. With Cedric, fair point. Harry had just seen Cedric die when he got back into the carriages to go back to Hogsmeade station. I thought about that at the end of Goblet, because I have known from the word go what was drawing the carriages. From Chamber of Secrets, in which there are carriages drawn by invisible things, I have known what was there.

    I decided that it would be an odd thing to do right at the end of a book. Anyone who has suffered a bereavement knows that there is the immediate shock but that it takes a little while to appreciate fully that you will never see that person again. Until that had happened, I did not think that Harry could see the Thestrals. That means that when he goes back, he saw these spooky things. It set the tone for Phoenix, which is a much darker book.

    • the head girl

      Jo’s last comment there, about it “tak[ing] a little while to appreciate fully that you will never see that person again,” reminded me a lot of a quote from Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead by Tom Stoppard.

      “No, no, no…you’ve got it all wrong…you can’t act death. The fact of it is nothing to do with seeing it happen – it’s not gasps and blood and falling about – that isn’t what makes it death. It’s just a man failing to reappear, that’s all – now you see him, now you don’t, that’s the only thing that’s real: here one minute and gone the next and never coming back – an exit, unobtrusive and unannounced, a disappearance gathering weight as it goes on, until, finally, it is heavy with death.”

      Maybe that’s the finality of it, the acceptance of it, that it isn’t until the exit is “heavy with death” that one can see the thestrals.

    • Olivia Cantrell

      Thank you so much for sharing this! The entire time I was listening I was shouting at my phone about this interview. I couldn’t remember where I had read it, or heard it, or what have you, but I remembered Jo saying something about making that a deliberate choice at the end of book four.

      -SillyMuggle