Episode 86 – OotP 9: Not the Neighbor

Join hosts Caleb, Kat, Noah, and fan host Sue as we delve into Mrs. Weasley’s deepest fears. Chapter 9 of Order of the Phoenix, The Woes of Mrs. Weasley is one of the books longest chapters, and with Noah at the helm there certainly is a lot to talk about…

On Episode 86 we discuss…

→ Episode 85 Recap: Owl tracking; Figg’s sight; Albus’ passive aggressive plight
→ PQOTW Responses
→ The voices in Harry’s head
→ Broom > Prefect
→ Did Jo write herself into the Boggart scene?
→ Question of the Week
→ Check out the Alohomora! Store

To listen to the show, simply click the player below or direct download the episode. You can also subscribe to us on iTunes. For more information about the podcast and to find out how to be on the show, check out our Be On The Show! page.

Don’t forget to leave us a voicemail at our phone number: 1-206-GO-ALBUS (462-5287). Skype users can also send us a message to username AlohomoraMN. And as always, be sure to continue the discussion below or on our Forums!


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  • DolphinPatronus

    Sue was a wonderful guest. I always like when the guest adds to the discussion without excessive prompting.

    On the topic of how much of Harry’s behavior is his own or if it’s being pushed by Voldemort I don’t think Voldemort is intentionally influencing Harry yet. I believe that Harry’s already sour mood & negative emotions are strengthening the connection but the feelings are his own. Under other circumstances Harry may not have felt these negative feelings as strongly but I think he would’ve had them no matter what.

    Now as for the issue of the boggart being foreshadowing…personally I don’t think it was. (Sorry Kat.) I think at this point it would be reasonable for readers to assume that not everyone in the Weasley clan is going to make it out of the war. As Molly herself says the entire family is in the Order so as depressing as it is to think the odds are not in their favor. Had the boggart only shown one or two people (specifically Fred) maybe I’d reconsider but we see basically the entire family (with only a few exceptions) & to me that’s a bit to broad to be considered foreshadowing when we know a war is coming.

    • Patronuscharm357

      I agree, I don’t think it’s a foreshadowing of Fred’s death. Molly is just afraid that one of her loved ones will die, (and is especially afraid for the younger ones because they are new to war, not as experienced, ect) and as it happens one of her children does. But it’s too broad, like you said. I think the main foreshadowing of Fred’s death would be George losing his ear. Because George has now lost something. And he will feel that times 1000 when Fred dies….:(

      • DolphinPatronus

        It’s like George loses a part of himself twice. :(

    • butterbeerbuzz

      I don’t think Molly’s boggart is foreshadowing. Sadly, war means deaths and Molly knows this, she lost her brothers. Molly is afraid of losing her family.

    • Dobby’s Sock

      We know Voldemort is not intentionally influencing Harry, because Snape tells us so. Voldemort is not even aware of the connection until Harry’s intrusion into his head on the night Nagini attacks Arthur.

    • Silverdoe25

      I believe that the boggart scene may very well have started out as foreshadowing. If you recall, Arthur Weasley was originally supposed to die in the Nagini attack until Jo gave him a reprieve. So Molly’s encounter with the boggart could have easily been pointing to that, if Jo had already written that part of the book.

      • DolphinPatronus

        If she had only seen Arthur I’d agree but she saw all the people she cares about most & they don’t all die. I just think it’s not specific enough to be foreshadowing any one person’s death.

    • phoenixflame22

      Question: Just realized something, does Mrs.
      Weasley see Hermione dead in the boggart scene? If she didn’t, why not?
      Honestly, she probably has been around Hermione as long as she has Harry, if
      not more? Molly sees Harry as a seventh son, but not Hermione as a second
      daughter? Or would Hermione’s body just be the next one in the chain as Sirius,
      Remus and Moody burst in just after ‘dead’ Harry appears

      • DolphinPatronus

        I don’t believe we see her seeing Hermione but that doesn’t mean she didn’t before anyone showed up or wouldn’t have if the boggart hadn’t been stopped.

        • phoenixflame22

          I think its more likely that she would have ‘seen’ Hermione after Harry if Harry and the others hadn’t ‘interrupted’. Also, the order of the boggart’s victims was interesting, how Ron was first even before Arthur. One of the biggest things people say against Molly is that she doesn’t love Ron (not that she doesn’t love him very much) as much as her other children, but this order kind of blows that out of the water if he is the first one she sees dead.

  • Elvis Gaunt

    After the book lists arrive, Fred and George say Dumbledore is finding it difficult to find a new DADA teacher and list the ways in which the previous four teacher have left. Shouldn’t they know what happened to the last six? In fact i would love to know what happened to everyone of them since Voldemort put the curse on the post.

    • thegiantsquid

      See, supposedly the job has been cursed since Voldemort was denied it, but it doesn’t seem like we hear anything about the DADA teachers before Quirrell. By the time Quirrell gets the job, they should have gone through a LOT of other teachers, and it should have already been a big deal and topic for discussion that the job is probably cursed. I never understood why the characters in the books seem to make it sound like it all started with Quirrell. Is this just a continuity error on JKR’s behalf (genius though she may be?

      • thegiantsquid

        Also I know that Harry’s school career starts with Quirrell, so that’s why through his perspective we get that, but like you pointed out, Fred and George start with Quirrell too, but they should have experienced two more before that.

        According the Wiki, Hepizbah Smith is killed by Voldemort around 1946. We know that ten years after this, Voldemort comes back to Hogwarts and asks again for the DADA job and is denied. That would be about 1956. So, according to this, the school should have lost about 35 DADA teachers before Quirrell even gets the job. Doesn’t it seem like that would be a big deal? Wouldn’t people be talking about that?

        • DolphinPatronus

          I think it would be a big deal if they all died but most of them just leave or are transfered to other positions.

          • thegiantsquid

            I dunno, it still seems like a pretty bad track record. I mean, I’m sure most of them haven’t died or anything, but if one job can’t keep a steady person for 30-odd years, I would think that would get people talking.

          • DolphinPatronus

            I thought at the very least the trio talked about it prior to this but maybe I’m just assuming they did.

          • thegiantsquid

            I’m not sure! I feel like I need to do a re-read to find out! :P It would make sense if they had though.

          • DolphinPatronus

            I know what you mean it’s been awhile since I’ve done a complete read through. I have so many other unread books I need to get to I just haven’t gotten around to it. LOL

          • thegiantsquid

            Oh my goodness, me too. I’m about halfway through DH right now, but it’s been slow-going because of school-work, work-work, and the like seven other books I’m trying to get through at the same time.

          • Patronuscharm357

            giantsquid, the same with me as well! I’ve just been sort of reading a few chapters of HP here and there, because of all the other things I’m reading, and school work.

          • DolphinPatronus

            I try to only read one book for leisure at a time. If I didn’t I don’t think I’d ever finish any of them. LOL

            It’s been about 17 years since I had to worry about my own school work & my son is finishing 6th grade so he handles his own pretty well nowadays. My job actually doesn’t take up too much time in my day. I’m a middle school lunch lady so I actually will be off for the entire summer starting next Thursday. So I should be able to do a lot more reading very soon.

          • thegiantsquid

            I’m graduating from college this July! :D My mom is a middle school lunch lady, that’s so neat! :)

          • DolphinPatronus

            Well congrats on your impending graduation! :)

          • thegiantsquid

            Aw, thanks! :)

          • Patronuscharm357

            Oh it did, remember. Everyone referred to it as the cursed job, and that was why Dumbledore always had a hard time trying to hire someone. Why else would he choose Lockhart unless he was the only one willing to take the post?

          • thegiantsquid

            I mean, I certainly believe you, I’m just curious to find the spot. :)

          • Patronuscharm357

            Do you mean when it starts being cursed? or when they start talking of it being cursed, rather.

          • thegiantsquid

            I guess what I mean is I know that they talk all the time about the job being cursed, but they only seem to reference Quirrell, Lockhart, Lupin, etc. – the most recent DADA teachers. I don’t remember a time, beyond Dumbledore talking about the job being cursed after refusing it to Voldemort, that anyone mentions that before Quirrell, 35 other people had the job for one year and then quit, moved on, died, or whatever happened to them. I feel like all of the references seem to imply that this trend began with Quirrell, but clearly that isn’t the case. What I’m wanting to find is a mention where someone makes reference to the fact that lots of people pre-Quirrell have gone through this too.

            And thanks! I only started listening last October and zoomed through all the podcasts to catch up by early this year. I kept hearing about all the awesome usernames, and so I knew when I got caught up, I’d have to think of a really fun one to add to the really cool collection of names already on here. I’m glad that you like it! :) Yours is pretty great too, and you also have the matching avatar. Basically, we’re all great. Yay Alohomora!

          • http://rkphoto.org/ RebeccaTheRavenclaw

            The DADA jinx…
            It is definitely weird that Fred and George don’t say anything about the presumed several DADA teachers prior to Quirrel, though as stated above they didn’t necessarily have to die or have tragic horrible things happen to them. (The worst that happens to Lupin, is that he resigns.) I think it is likely that many teachers would either have transferred to other subjects, or resigned, moved away, or had other life choices come up that ended their teaching post. It reminds me a little of how the muggle repelling charms work on, if I’m remembering correctly, the Quidditch World Cup stadium. Muggles approaching the stadium suddenly remember things they have to go and do…perhaps the jinx works this way? Say a teacher was engaged and planned to be married within the next two years or so, and then the jinx goes in to effect and they have to leave because of it and so decide that they actually are going to move up their wedding and get married a year earlier than originally planned. Would that be just because they want their wedding to happen quicker or because the jinx was being activated which made them move their wedding date up subconsciously? The two things kind of feed into each other. This also is likely why no one seems suspicious about so many teachers “leaving.” I think that the teachers we see in the books all represent really dramatic ways of leaving because Harry is involved and the story we are reading is taking place…it would be a pretty boring story to read that your teacher went off in search of mooncalves, or is now moving across the county, or took a job as a reporter at the daily prophet–you know, normal, average, (for a wizard) plain kind of life choices.

            As to the question of when we see the jinx first mentioned, I believe it is first alluded to by Hagrid in CoS, chapter 7, page 115 (American edition) Hagrid begins speaking after Hermione stands up for Lockhart after Hagrid criticizes him. He says, “Gettin’ very difficult ter find anyone fer the Dark Arts job. People aren’t too keen to take it on, see. They’re startin’ ter think it’s jinxed. No one’s lasted long for awhile now.” I know it is discussed several times after this moment, but it think this is the first mention…? Hagrid never (and I dont think anyone else for that matter,) ever actually mentions a specific number of people like, ‘This has been happening for three decades!’ or anything like that. Everything is all very vague. Maybe Jo herself wasn’t sure of her timeline yet? And we know she isn’t the greatest at math, so that could be it too. By not giving a specific number anywhere, she leaves herself some wiggle room for explanations and back story.

            A couple more things I discovered on the hp wiki…
            The jinx, placed by Voldemort, actually works against three of his followers (Quirrel, crouch jr., and Snape) which is pretty interesting and something I never thought of before…the jinx may have been placed (in addition to revenge from V being denied the post) to discredit the subject of defense, which obviously works again V’s plans in creating more knowledgable and skilled students who can oppose him…and, a fun fact that I didn’t know, according to the wiki, who sourced from “accio quote” who has a transcript from Jo from a couple of years ago, the idea for having the DADA teachers leave after a year came from the band Spinaltap since apparently they did a similar thing with having their (fictional) drummer constantly “dying” in absurd ways.

          • http://rkphoto.org/ RebeccaTheRavenclaw

            WHOOPS. Sorry for that tome! Ten points to whatever house you’re in if you read that whole fricken thing. I will try to be more succinct next time!

          • thegiantsquid

            You rock! This is awesome. That Hagrid quote is exactly what I’ve been looking for. I like that your posts are verbose, so no need to apologize.

          • Patronuscharm357

            I agree with the giantsquid, that Hagrid quote is good proof! I think it tallies up with our theories about (see mine below) about Quirrell bringing back the talk about the post.
            however, you made one mistake, referring to the timeline of when it started being cursed. We know the timeline, it was when Voldemort was denied the job by Dumbledore, that it started being cursed. Dumbledore tells Harry that after that day a DADA teacher has only stayed or lasted one year.
            Good point on your last paragraph….it’s odd that his own curse would also curse his death eaters. And also, it worked on the carrows too, and they weren’t even teaching DADA they were teaching plain Dark Arts.

          • Patronuscharm357

            Okay I see what you mean. The trio doesn’t really mention any other names. But we know for sure that it started being cursed after Voldemort was denied the job by Dumbledore. After then, a teacher has only stayed for one year, and I believe many Hogwarts students talk of this. But I’m not sure. It does seem that they only use Quirrell onward as examples. Maybe we only hear of Quirrell onward names, because they are most relevant to the story, as Quirrell was the Trio’s first DADA teacher and they wouldn’t know the others. But whether it was mentioned or not (I am still going to look more to find a mention of the curse before Quirrell) it was cursed since Voldemort was denied the job, so there must have been talk of the other 35 teachers. Perhaps we just do not see talk of those before Quirrell, again because of the trio.

            That’s cool! ah, I haven’t had time to listen to all the podcasts! There are a lot and I have also recently started listening. I’ve been enjoying the ones from OotP and have listened to a couple others.

            Thanks! And yes, this is a lovely site!

          • thegiantsquid

            Oh, I’m sure that’s mostly why (the trio’s perspective), particularly because Harry comes from a Muggle household and would have no way of knowing about previous teachers.

            Oh my goodness, you have to listen to more!! I commute about an hour to school, so I listened to them all then. It made the time fly, and I was able to get through a ton every week.

          • Patronuscharm357

            Oh that’s awesome! I don’t have much time to listen to them now with school finishing in a couple weeks, probably will have time later. xD

          • Patronuscharm357

            Oh, I just thought of another point. The post had to have had a nasty reputation for a long time, but perhaps people got used to it. And we know that the teachers do not always die, sometimes they are fired, or it could be they happened to find another post, retired, ect. So maybe for some years it had only been retirements, leave-taking, being fired, and many other curious incidents that resulted in each professor staying only one year. It could then have turned into a dull subject, until say, after about ten or so years of unlucky situations, someone actually dies after their one year (Quirrell). Maybe a death had not happened in a long time, so it was kind of background info, old story news until then. But a death would bring back all the old stories and rumours and get people talking of it again.

            And since we know the Trio is very perceptive about things going on, and are always finding about plots and things they are not supposed to know of, that is why they have noted it. While other might just be like, ‘yeah old news, unimportant.’

          • thegiantsquid

            Hey! That’s actually a really good point. I was thinking that it would be sensational, but really, after that long, it would be pretty commonplace that the professor changed annually, but Quirrell’s death would be a new event. Very smart!

          • Patronuscharm357

            Yes, exactly!

  • Elvis Gaunt

    Harry’s spirits are lifted after he learns that his father had not been a prefect either. Here are all the prefects we know of; Dumbledore, Voldemort, Lucius Malfoy, Lupin, Bill, Charlie, Percy, Ron, Hermione, Draco, Pansy Parkinson, Antony Goldstein, Ernie McMillan, Hannah Abbott, and Padma Patil. Were Lily, Ginny, Luna and Snape prefects too?

    • DolphinPatronus

      I’m 99% sure Lily was but I’m not sure about the others you mentioned. For some reason I remember something mentioning Lily doing prefect duty.

      • Cassandra1447

        I’m also 99% sure. Lily was Head Girl too (right?) and while not always true, those are usually prefects first.

        • DolphinPatronus

          She & James were head girl & head boy together. I think the only reason james was able to be head boy is because he’d been Qidditch captain. (Tho I’m just speculating on that.)

    • DolphinPatronus

      Also don’t forget Cedric & if I’m not mistaken Penelope Clearwater.

      • Elvis Gaunt

        I can’t believe I missed Cedric! And yes Penelope too.

    • Hufflepug

      Sadly I doubt that Luna or Ginny were prefects because wouldn’t Snape and the Carrows have changed the whole system to favor the children of Death Eaters? Plus Luna was gone for a large chunk of the year :(

      • Hufflepug

        (^That was me, don’t know why I posted as a guest). Just wanted to say that I had a large brainfart – that was their sixth year, not fifth! >_< I won't assume they were prefects, but it makes sense considering their dedication to the well being of the Wizarding World as a whole, which they showed the previous year in the Department of Mysteries.

  • Elvis Gaunt

    Of all the reactions that people have on learning that Ron had been made a prefect, I love Moody’s. He says that authority figure attract trouble and Ron must be capable enough to handle it. Notice that he too looks at Harry. Does he think Harry should have been made a prefect too; not to boast his spirits but because he has the proven ability to handle difficult situations.

    • http://rkphoto.org/ RebeccaTheRavenclaw

      Yes, definitely. I think Moody, along with Kingsley, is confused as to why Dumbledore wouldn’t want Harry as a prefect. Neither of them are thinking like Dumbledore here. They take Harry at face value and extrapolate that since Harry is capable of dealing with danger, he is capable of dealing with misbehaving first years, while according to Dumbledore, he thinks Harry has got quite enough on his plate, and I’d have to agree with him there. Give the kid a break! Just ’cause he’s Harry Potter doesn’t mean he has to do *everything!*

  • Elvis Gaunt

    Lucius Malfoy alludes to their meeting in the graveyard when he says Harry has managed to slither out of trouble yet again. I think he has a lot of nerve to say this in front of Fudge and Arthur, a known Dumbledore associate.

    • http://rkphoto.org/ RebeccaTheRavenclaw

      The bit with Lucius always enrages me. The nerve of this guy!! Obviously, it *is* Malfoy, we’re talking about here, but geez! I also always want to give Harry a big pat on the back or like a high five or something since he stays so cool and has a great line to say back at Malfoy. I, personally, probably would have gone the Hermione route and slapped him as hard as I could. Though, Harry clearly has the best response here, since I doubt slapping Lucius Malfoy in the face in front of Fudge would be a good idea. I can just hear my sentencing to azkaban…

  • AccioPotassium!

    The decision of making Ronald Weasley a prefect has always seemed to be rather odd to me because Ron has never shown any academic promise in his four years at Hogwarts, and he seems to get into trouble a great number of times during his academic career. Ron did have a few moments of excellence during his stay at Hogwarts, but these dangerous activities shouldn’t overrule his academic level. This year’s prefect decision makes me question the academic abilities of the other male Gryffindor students. Could the other Gryffindor students really be below Ron Weasley’s academic skill? Or is it his great chess playing ability which pushed Ron to second place?

    • DolphinPatronus

      I don’t think prefects are selected solely based on academic ability. A prefect is defined as an older student who is given the job of helping to watch and control younger students in a school. Of all the boys in Ron & Harry’s year I’d say Ron was second in leadership skills. Granted we don’t see enough of Seamus & Dean to be absolutely certain of this it seems like a safe bet.

      • Cassandra1447

        Except Ron doesn’t seem to do much guiding and watching. He’s more likely to laugh and condone pranks and tomfoolery than to object, and I’ve never thought of him as being the type to take younger students under his wing and mentor them.

        I do think Dumbledore may have been trying to give Ron a chance to learn leadership and develop responsibility. How much good that did at Hogwarts through his prefect role is, I think, debatable, but it probably helped later on.

        Perhaps Dumbledore also wanted prefects who believed in Voldemort’s return? Prefects do have authority within the school. If the Gryffindor prefect didn’t support Harry (and the Order and Dumbledore), that could be problematic and make Harry and Dumbledore look less credible. If the prefect – who is chosen by those in authority and considered to be worthy of being a student leader – doesn’t believe, why should anyone else?

        • DolphinPatronus

          You’re right he doesn’t rise to the occasion but I think Dumbledore saw that he was capable of it if he let himself. I think if it hadn’t been for Fred & George giving him such a hard time he’d have been a better prefect.

        • thegiantsquid

          I like what you say about Dumbledore making Ron prefect because he’d like him to learn leadership and responsibility. Dumbledore probably already knows by this point that Ron and Hermione are by Harry’s side for good, and knows that if Ron is to be with Harry through his difficult times ahead, he is going to have to do more than joke around all of the time.

      • Elvis Gaunt

        Probably Dumbledore knew about Ron’s confidence issues and thought that it was about time he got some recognition which he rightfully deserves.

        • DolphinPatronus

          For some reason I thought he said something along those lines at the end of this book. I could be wrong it’s been awhile since I’ve completed a re-read of this one tho.

    • Patronuscharm357

      Ron is an average student, and he does get into trouble, however, Hermione gets into just as much trouble as he does. We all know that she likes to follow the rules, yet she breaks the rules anyway.

      Personally I think Ron was a good choice. I don’t think Dumbledore just looks at someone’s test scores. For example: Fred and George are very clever and talented wizards, yet they get really low scores on their tests and classes because they do not do all of their assignments and work. And they spend time working on their own magic, rather than studying the magic from the course.

      I agree with DolphinPatronus, being a prefect means showing leadership. I think it was a good decision because Ron was able to get a turn to gain more leadership skills, which he is not accustomed to, since he is the second youngest of seven siblings. Ron needed a turn to have responsibility, and this shines through in DH when we see Ron taking over some of the leadership roles when Harry gets kind of depressed and obsessed with the Hallows.

      • AccioPotassium!

        After reading all the replies from my original comment, I might have to agree with the four of you on this particular issue. I have always thought the honor of prefect was given to the best academic students, (such as Hermione, Percy, Dumbledore, and Tom Riddle,) but after reading the comment made by Elvis Gaunt about known prefects and some more research of my own, it’s simply not true with some cases with prefects such as Pansy Parkinson, and Ronald Weasley. I do like the idea of Dumbledore choosing Ron for the benefit of his leadership skills, but there might be a better person for this leadership building position. Neville Longbottom is not only quite gifted in the studies of herbology, but he is also desperately in the need of self-confidence, in which the position of prefect could have helped him boost his self-confidence in his round face forgetful life.

        • Dan Sharp

          I think that Dumbledore was looking to the future and realized that both Ron and Hermione would be closely tied to the events to come being Harry’s best friends. Neville doesn’t really begin to figure until this book. While he couldn’t have known it at the time Neville doesn’t need to be a prefect to gain his leadership qualities anyway.

          • AccioPotassium!

            Our humming headmaster does seem to think rather far ahead in the interworkings of the trio, so it does seem likely that this could have been part of his reasoning in choosing the King for the honorable position of prefect. I’m curious on who is actually in charge of the decision making process for the four house’s prefects. What we learned from in the lost prophecy chapter is that Dumbledore was at least part of the prefect discussion of the Gryffindor house, but if we would look at the Slytherin prefects, it seems as though it was made by the Half-blood prince’s favorites students. Pansy Parkinson and Draco Malfoy would easily abuse their power over their fellow students, and it seems unlikely that Albus Dumbledore would have chosen such despicable students for this honorable opportunity.

          • DolphinPatronus

            I think Dumbledore gets final say but the Heads of House are involved. I don’t find it all that unlikely that Dumblore would select Draco & Pansy. They are clearly both leaders & lets face it out of all the Slytherins we know of in this batch of students who among them wouldn’t abuse the power? Heck to a small extent Ron does too.

          • Cassandra1447

            Do we really know that much about all the Slytherins in Harry’s year? We know Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle, Parkinson, and Bulstrode but very little about the other five Slytherins. I’m with you on the leadership part, as Malfoy and Parkinson clearly are the male and female leaders in the year, but I’m not convinced one of the other five wouldn’t have been a bit less abusive (because we don’t know enough, especially about the girls).

          • DolphinPatronus

            I’ll give you that. But we do know that none of the Slytherins stay to fight on the good side in the end so we can at least assume they aren’t the kindest people.

          • Cassandra1447

            But are they less or more kind than Malfoy and Parkinson? That’s the question and we just don’t know.

            As for fighting on the good side, what if they had family members among the Death Eaters and their cronies? Slytherins more than any other House would be likely to and asking them to injure or kill their own family is very, very hard. Even among the Order, I believe Tonks is the only one with family in Voldemort’s ranks. And as for not fighting itself, some Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs don’t fight either. So not fighting doesn’t necessarily make those particular Slytherins unkind any more than the Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff students or anyone in the general public who doesn’t join the Battle of Hogwarts. Not everyone is brave enough to fight no matter what we’d like to believe.

          • DolphinPatronus

            I’m sure that many of the Slytherin students do have family among the Death Eaters but that also kind of goes toward my point. I didn’t say they were all bad (look at Slughorn) but all of the Slytherins we see are jerks. As for the Ravenclaws & Hufflepuff you are only partially right. Some of the Ravenclaws did leave but (according to Jo on Harry Potter: Beyond the Page) virtually all the Hufflepuff students stayed.

          • Cassandra1447

            For some reason, I thought the Heads of Houses would suggest the candidates although I’m clueless as to where that idea originated and am thus doubtful of its veracity. However, I think the idea does make sense, as the Heads have a better acquaintance with the students within their Houses and would know who is already showing leadership qualities within the House. Then, after the House Heads make their suggestions, the Headmaster has final say.

          • AccioPotassium!

            I was unable to find any inclusive information about how prefects are chosen at Hogwarts, but I would have to agree with your comment because it seems to fit with all known bits of data we have on this particular issue. Your hypothesis could also explain why Neville Longbottom has fallen short in the prefect discussion of the Gryffindor house. If Neville Longbottom was a Hufflepuff he would probably have been granted the honorable position of prefect because of his great future in the field of Herbology, but since he almost utterly fails at transfiguration, Professor McGonagall would have never recommended him for the position.

      • phoenixflame22

        Ron and responsibility just don’t go together IMO. Look at right after the Sorting Feast when Ron calls all the first years ‘Midgets’ or the scene in HBP when Hermione confiscates the Fanged Frisbee from two younger students, and as soon as they walk away, Ron grabs it from Hermione and says “I’ve always wanted one of these”. Those scenes shows that Ron seemed more interested in the perks of being prefect rather than the responsibilities that come with the position. And honestly Ron taking charge in DH, I think, was more done in a way to try and make him more likable after abandoning Harry and Hermione for a second time in the series.

        I think that either Harry or Neville would have made better prefects than Ron. Both needed the confidence boost as much as Ron did, Harry was getting torn down in the Prophet and Neville had been downtrodden all his life.

        IMO being a prefect is a student who both is academically strong as well as someone who has shown leadership qualities in order to set an example to the younger students. Ron doesn’t do this at all, he is lazy, jealous and would rather let Hermione do all the work than step up and show some maturity.

    • http://rkphoto.org/ RebeccaTheRavenclaw

      Agreed, but considering that Pansy Parkinson, Malfoy, and several other not-so-rigorously-studying people are selected, it’s easier to see that academics aren’t the end all for prefect selections. Also, if it was based on academics alone, it probably would have been Hermione and only Hermione…like in the the whole fifth year.

  • Elvis Gaunt

    After the boggart turns into dead Harry, Lupin, Sirius and Moody come into the room. Sirius is staring at the spot where the boggart lay even after Lupin gets rid it and takes a long time before he speaks. Was that Sirius’s worst fear too? He seems to appreciate Molly better after this incident. They don’t have another row after this. He understands that she is not merely being bossy but genuinely cares for Harry. He did not see the boggart taking the forms of the dead Weasleys.

    • thegiantsquid

      Well, Harry is said to look so much like James, Sirius is probably seeing both his best friend and his godson dead at his feet, and I can imagine that would be a very difficult image to shake. I never thought about the fact that he and Molly do not fight (at least in front of Harry) after this point, but that may very well have a lot to do with why. Interesting observation!

    • DolphinPatronus

      I think Sirius seeing Harry dead helped the reality of the situation sink in. I’m sure it helped him see exactly where Molly was coming from & that she wasn’t being difficult just to be mean. He realized her thoughts on the topic come from a place of love for the people she cares about including Harry.

  • Elvis Gaunt

    If we remember Professor Lupin’s lesson well, we will know that to deal with a boggart, one has to imagine their worst fear take a funny form. How would Molly do that. How can she imagine the dead bodies of her loved ones in a humorous way? I think this is the reason why she is so helpless in this scene.

    It is sad to see that Lupin’s boggart is still the full moon. It shows that he has not come to terms with “his furry little problem” yet. We see more of this in the last two books.

    • thegiantsquid

      That’s one of the things I remember thinking about the first time I read this book. Any way you put it, dead loved ones are extremely sad, and any attempts to make them comical would probably only make it sadder.

    • DolphinPatronus

      I agree that’s why she was so helpless. I also don’t think she expected the boggart to react this way. She likely had this fear so suppressed that she didn’t realize she had it. I just can’t imagine someone knowing this was there greatest fear trying to combat a boggart intentionally. You’d have to know you couldn’t make the scene funny without it hurting more.

      It kind of shows how head strong she is that she didn’t have one of the others help her. She must’ve been very confident that it would take some other form.

      • http://rebeccatheravenclaw.tumblr.com RebeccaTheRavenclaw

        I think also, though it can’t remember the direct quote, that Lupin says to the class in PoA during the boggart scene, that you should always have help when tackling a boggart. Shouldn’t Molly know this? She chooses to go at it alone and of course, we see what happens. I’m not sure how you could make her very real fear funny in any way, but at least if there had been a second person helping her they could have deflected the boggart and maybe–say their fear is like…spiders or something–there would be the thing where the boggart can’t decide what to be and so combines itself into both people’s fears and turns into a deceased spider. That’s the only way I can really think of ‘defeating’ the boggart…except obviously the way Lupin eventually does.

        • DolphinPatronus

          I remember what you’re talking about he said something along the lines of it being easier to finish off a boggart when you tried with more people because it gets confused. I can’t recall the specific quote & I don’t have my book handy at the moment.

  • Patronuscharm357

    Lol What’s with all the advertisements? I felt like I was watching a Wayne’s World movie for a moment there. :P

    • DolphinPatronus

      That was nothing compared to Academia…there was seriously about 20 minutes of non discussion.

      • http://bs-media.tumblr.com/ Noah Fried

        hilarious

    • thegiantsquid

      Hey, at least that means they’re successful and have sponsors! Of course we want all the awesome PotterTalk we can get, but I don’t mind ads here and there.

      • Patronuscharm357

        Yeah I’m not saying it’s a big deal, but it made me laugh. Like I mentioned it reminded me of Wayne’s World where they will randomly look at the camera and promote a pop can or something to mock when people actually do this. It just sounds weird, you must admit. “Harry Potter, potter talk , yatta yatta….oh guys you know how awesome this shaver kit is!?”

        • thegiantsquid

          Oh no, I agree, it was a weird segue. I did laugh at the name joke though.

        • DolphinPatronus

          I agree I don’t mind a minute or two mention of a sponsor I just hope it doesn’t get excessive. Seriously when I listened to the new Academia episode between the fairly long prerecorded show “intro”, the also prerecorded ad for the other podcast, what also sounded like a prerecorded ad for this Harry’s shave thing & Keith & John actually talking about the shave kit it took over 20 minutes of the podcast. That too me is a bit much.

      • http://www.mugglenet.com/ Kat

        Thanks! We like having them too. Keeps us in the black and able to keep bringing the show to you! :)

  • Patronuscharm357

    On the note of Harry’s emotional response to Ron and Hermione becoming Prefects–I really liked Harry’s reaction as it showcased good character depth on Jo’s part and Harry’s resentment links to the on-going issue between him and Dumbledore throughout this book.

    First off, Harry and Dumbledore have a really family type of relationship. The way I see it, Dumbledore thinks of Harry as like a son, especially since he’s never had his own children. They have a special relationship and it is clear they love each other. So, it is really hard to watch, as Sue said, and painful for Harry, when Dumbledore ignores him. I think it makes Harry feel abandoned, and he feels this way off the bat as soon as Dumbledore ships him back to the Dursleys for the summer. Dumbledore made him stay there longer than he should have, and he had all this bitter, petty feelings built up inside that he was ‘half-ashamed of’ as Jo so rightly puts it.

    This is why I think his reaction to Ron and Hermione becoming Prefects was really well displayed. It was really real, if you know what I mean. Everyone has those pathetic and petty feelings of bitter jealousy. And Harry did not want to be a bad friend and think that Ron did not deserve the position, but he was effected in a negative way because to him, it seemed like this was another way for Dumbledore to pointedly ignore him, like he did at the Ministry. It would have been bad enough if Dumbledore chose just one of Harry’s best friends and someone else, but no, he chooses Ron and Hermione, which to Harry might seem like Dumbledore gave thought to them but not to him, and he is purposely ignoring Harry. This is not only frustrating because Harry doesn’t know why, it is very hurtful. Think about it: Harry does not want to be ungrateful to Dumbledore or a bad friend to Ron, but he has been used to being completely ignored by the Dursleys for years, and now someone whom he trusts and loves and thought he had a great relationship with is doing the same thing, treating him the same way. It is no wonder these bitter feelings are stirring up.

    • butterbeerbuzz

      I totally agree! Harry’s human and Rowling does a great job of drawing that out. Harry has been through so much and it’s no unreasonable for him to think about everything he’s gone through as opposed to Ron.

      Harry has gone through a lot since the begining of Order of the Phoneix, he’s left in the dark while at the Dursleys, dementors, his hearing, and he knows war is coming. Not being named Prefect is just another one of those things. I think it makes him very human.

      • Patronuscharm357

        Exactly. And when someone is under a lot of stress, sometimes it is the little things that trigger an emotional response, whereas the bigger things we tend to try and bury more. So it kind of showcases that; obviously compared to Voldemort returning and watching a friend die in front of him, Ron getting the prefect and not him is not a big deal in Harry’s life. He realizes that, but being frustrated about a lot of other important things, perhaps, it is easier to dwell on something more trivial than think about the more painful subjects.

  • Cassandra1447

    On the forums, MugglesinStMungos brought up Dumbledore’s assertion in “The Lost Prophecy” that Voldemort wasn’t aware of the connection until the attack on Mr. Weasley at Christmas. Dumbledore is somewhat confusing on this issue – he says he stayed away from Harry for fear of Voldemort sensing Dumbledore via the connection while also making the referenced statement above and not starting Occlumency until after the attack. If Dumbledore seriously thought Voldemort could proactively reach into Harry’s mind at any point in the months before the attack, why wait all that time to start Harry on Occlumency?

    On the theory the Dumbledore does think Voldemort only became aware after the attack, then his avoidance was a precaution only. Maybe he thought his presence would somehow trigger on Voldemort and cause Voldemort to become aware of the connection.

    Which then implies that Voldemort couldn’t consciously influence Harry until post-Christmas because Voldemort was not even aware the connection existed. It also makes sense that Harry, with his whole and healthy soul, can register the intense fluctuating emotions of Voldemort much much better than Voldemort can register Harry’s. Voldemort’s soul is extremely damaged and splintered; I doubt the highs and lows of Harry’s emotions would register in his consciousness, especially compared to Voldemort’s own tumultuous emotions. Harry also has far more of Voldemort in him than Voldemort has of Harry. Voldemort just has a blood link while Harry has a soul piece. I would expect Harry to be able to perceive Voldemort better than Voldemort can perceive Harry because of this. Voldemort isn’t really aware of his other soul pieces in DH so I doubt he could really feel the piece in Harry unless he was deliberately trying.

    • Patronuscharm357

      This is something that has been troubling me as well.
      I agree that Voldemort couldn’t feel Harry as much as Harry could feel him. And like you said, if Dumbledore did not start Harry on Occ. then he couldn’t have thought Voldemort was accessing Harry’s thoughts. So then why such precautions? It must have been because he thought it would ‘tempt’ Voldemort to access Harry’s thoughts, as Dumbledore says at the end of this book. But how could Dumbledore tempt Voldemort if Voldemort did not even know of the connection?
      Well, actually I believe Voldemort knew about it to some extent. But he at this point did not know that he could implant images in Harry’s dreams…..?
      And as for that matter, when did the dreams of the room of prophecies actually start? It was before the Mr. Weasley attack, I’m sure. I really need to do a proper reread :/ just haven’t the time right now, reading all these other books. haha. But I’ll look in my book for when the dreams start and maybe that will give us a clue as to when Voldemort started this plan to lure Harry to the DoM. Until V started this plot, I think that Dumbledore did not find it necessary for Harry to start Occ. because if he did, the maybe V would be aware that Harry was trying to block him.

      • Hufflepug

        The first dream of the door is actually right at the beginning of the next chapter and it’s very faintly included among an array of other dreams – sneaky foreshadowing Jo is at it again! So it was long before the attack on Mr. Weasley. Maybe Harry’s initial dreams of the door happened because Voldemort was thinking about getting the prophecy (similar to how Harry could see the scene with Frank Bryce) and eventually realized, through the snake incident, that Harry was peering into his mind and so he started formulating the plan. This could mean that Dumbledore understood Harry’s vulnerability and was taking a precaution, and then he understood that Voldemort would have found out about this vulnerability through the snake incident.

        • Patronuscharm357

          Oh yes, I did believe it was early on.

          I think you absolutely got it! That is right, V was obsessing over the DoM, and so it was subtly being impressed upon Harry; and then after V found out, he started implanting the dream on purpose to lure Harry there.

          • Hufflepug

            Right! And I think it makes sense that Dumbledore predicted Voldemort finding out about Harry creeping on his thoughts. Dumbledore knows how curious Harry is – I mean, he’s always leaving clues around with confidence that Harry will figure them out because he obsesses over them. He understood Harry and Voldemort’s connection at least to some extent at the end of Book 4 so he probably deduced that with Harry’s emotional vulnerability after his return and with Voldemort’s new strength, Harry would be able to see Voldemort’s thoughts about the prophecy and become curious enough to expose his mind to him. Maybe Dumbledore was even hoping to use Harry to gather information at some point, but then the wall between them broke before he could find out anything that would help the Order (other than, of course, finding out that Arthur was attacked).

          • Patronuscharm357

            That is very true. Harry is curious, and determined, one reason Dumbledore always has full confidence Harry will find the answers.

            On your second point-Oh yes! For sure. That’s what I always thought the first time reading OotP. That’s why I think it is unfair that people stew over Harry’s “moodiness” and “anger” in this book; even without the fact that the Voldemort connection is affecting his mood and emotions (like you said in a similar way to the horcrux) Harry is justified in acting that way because of what he is going through. And what he is going through includes the V connection. Because before now, Harry was not used to this, because V was not fully formed until his rebirth. So that is why Harry really has to deal with living with this connection in books 5-7. And of course, this being the first time he has to learn to deal with it, it’s going to be shaky.

          • Hufflepug

            Exactly, and even though he can get pretty annoying in this book, he really does mature so much through it as he goes through so many struggles and eventually grows as a leader for the DA :) That could be part of why in HBP he’s very focused on learning about Voldemort’s past and in a significantly better mood most of the time. He’s learning to live with his demons because he knows he has to fight.

          • Patronuscharm357

            I don’t find him annoying at all (though of course, that is subjective) but I agree that he does mature a lot in this book, and even more so at the end of book six.
            And yes, good point on HBP!
            There is a quote at the end of HBP where it describes that Harry is accepting he is on this road alone (without guidance of a parental figure) and must therefore figure it out and deal with it. THis is very difficult to come to terms to, especially since harry has been deprived of parental figures for his childhood. But this book shows the beginnings of him going through this.

  • Cassandra1447

    Gideon and Fabian were never confirmed as twins. The Phelps brothers did pose as them for the photo in the OotP movie which may be where this idea was cemented for some people.The idea is pretty popular and accepted in fandom. However, nothing I can find from book canon definitely says Gideon and Fabian were twins (correct me if I’m wrong). It’s not unlikely given as twins run in families, but it’s not confirmed either way.

  • thegiantsquid

    The store needs to sell buttons! They’re so cute and collectable, and they leave plenty of room for host sayings, logos, and whatever else. Buttons!!!

    • http://rebeccatheravenclaw.tumblr.com RebeccaTheRavenclaw

      Liiiiiiiikeeeee………spew badges…..? Perchance………? ;) I mean…I for one, would wear a spew badge….just a thought…(or, and I’m surprised Noah hasn’t already done this, maybe mandrake liberation front buttons…?)

      • thegiantsquid

        Oh my goodness, YES.
        Buttons are just the best.
        MLF badges, SPEW badges, slogan badges, Lupin badges, general show badges… ALL THE BADGES!

        • http://rebeccatheravenclaw.tumblr.com RebeccaTheRavenclaw

          ALL. THE. BADGES!

      • http://bs-media.tumblr.com/ Noah Fried

        #MLF BUTTON

        • http://rebeccatheravenclaw.tumblr.com RebeccaTheRavenclaw

          So is this gonna be a thing then…? Also, I’m not sure about the rules/laws on this but I would love a house shirt. The only one I see close to that is Rosie’s ‘hug me I’m a hufflepuff’ shirt. There is a surprising lack of ravenclaw, slytherin, or gryffindor, pride in the store. Maybe each house could just have a really simple design that said something like ‘proud to be a [insert house here]‘ and then like an Alohomora logo on the back or something? I don’t know how much work that is but it is really difficult to find quality ravenclaw shirts that are a) the correct colors (blue and BRONZE, thank you movies) b) with the correct mascot (an EAGLE not raven, again thank you movies) and c) not a zillion dollars. So that’d be pretty neat if that could happen. Again, I don’t know how much work I just suggested for someone, so y’know don’t overload your selves here. It’s just a thought. ☺️ P.S. Should the badges/button thing happen, it’d be sweet to have a four pack of each house having its own button. Cause we all feel a little slytherin/hufflepuff/ravenclaw/gryffindor sometimes.

          • Hufflepug

            Also to add to your shirt ideas, Michael should release that Lupin Love shirt that was mentioned a few episodes ago!

  • Efthymia

    Poor Ron! No wonder he has self-esteem issues. Why did everyone assume Harry was going to be made a prefect? Is he academically better than Ron? No. Is he in better terms with his House-mates and teachers, something that might have a positive effect on prefect duties? No. Has he shown better leadership skills, as some claim? No -Ron managed the giant chessboard and flew them in safely in a magical car, Hermione has done everything else to keep them alive and successful (until the very last fight, which Harry faces alone every time). Harry is good at Quidditch, which should have nothing to do with prefect duties, and has had extra training the past couple of years because of the Dementors and the Triwizard Tournament, which makes him a more skilled fighter than Ron, which again has nothing to do with prefect duties.
    The Headmaster and his House’s Head both know that Voldemort is back and will certainly go after Harry, so of course they don’t want to burden him with extra duties (and Harry should have figured that out). And I’m pretty sure that if he had been asked if he wanted to become a prefect, he would have said no. He instinctively feels he is better than Ron, and most people around him validate that feeling. So I’ll repeat: No wonder Ron has self-esteem issues.
    And this is why Molly’s reaction is one of my favourite moments of hers: she doesn’t doubt for an instant that Ron deserves this, she’s genuinely happy and proud.

  • LeslieLovegood

    I’ve always really felt for the twins when Molly seemingly “forgets” them when Ron is made prefect. I mean literally saying everyone in the family forgets them. The twins laugh it off but it has to hurt.

    I’ve also always thought it was interesting that Dumbledore chose Ron. We know why he didn’t choose Harry, but why Ron who is not the most responsible or even a leader. Why not someone like Dean? It seems like choosing Ron is rubbing salt into Harry’s wound.

    • DolphinPatronus

      I agree. I always felt a momentary pang for the twins in this moment.

      I thought there was a moment later when she redeems this momentary lapse by runing to them first checking if they’re ok & they are actually taken aback a bit by it at first but I can’t call when it is specifically & I don’t have my books handy to look it up.

      • Elvis Gaunt

        It was after Harry, Hermione and the Weasleys return from the Quidditch World Cup Final. The last thing she had told them before this was that they did not get enough OWLs. So, she hugs them first. And everyone is surprised when she does this indicating that everyone is very much aware of her attitude towards the twins. Even then she does not look at them as two separate people.

        • DolphinPatronus

          Thanks. That must be the moment I was thinking of I’m not sure why I thought it was later. The way you word that makes it sound as if she doesn’t care about the twins tho & I must admit that bothers me a little. She clearly loves them but they exasperate here very frequently & she has to discipline them so often it makes it seem that she cares for them less & I don’t think that’s true. I will give you that she doesn’t look at them as two separate people but not many people in the series do. They are virtually always together & acting as one so they kind of bring that on themselves.

          • Elvis Gaunt

            I know she loves the twins, but knowingly or unknowingly, she seems to indicate that her other children are better. This is scene is a perfect example of that. Notice how she brushes aside George when he points out that they are not next door neighbours. It is lucky that the twins are not too sensitive to this.

          • DolphinPatronus

            I know as a mother she shouldn’t show favoritism but as awesome as the twins are technically the other kids ARE in a sense better. Yes the twins are good guys & kind people but they get in a ton of trouble & slack off in school. I think that’s where her treatment of them comes from. She’s so used to having to be unkind to them for disciplinary reasons & them blowing her off that it’s become habit.

    • Patronuscharm357

      She also forgets Ginny. Well, she’s not old enough yet to be considered for Prefect, but everyone still excludes her in this.

  • Cassandra1447

    Is Dumbledore too focused on Harry and the Trio? Does he miss opportunities to encourage other students to develop into leaders and/or fighters against the Dark?

    For example, as far as we know, Dumbledore never takes any steps to help Neville grow into the heroic figure he becomes. He never tries to tap into Neville’s potential. In my opinion, giving Neville the prefect badge would have been at least as equally as good an idea as giving it to Ron. Ginny and Luna might be other examples as well. The student population in general could also be an example; Dumbledore gives them a couple of nice speeches but he doesn’t implement any sort of activity or effort to help them learn to defend themselves or to try to mend the House divides.

    • Adam Klawitter

      Dumbledore knows that it’s going to come down to Harry and Voldemort in the end, because Voldemort’s decided it. If Voldemort had marked Neville as his equal, like the prophecy said, Dumbledore would have focused on Neville.
      As for the prefects, remember than once a student is made a prefect, they stay one until they leave school. Ginny and Luna are a year behind everyone else, so as long as Hermione is at Hogwarts, Ginny couldn’t be a prefect, and I’m just guessing that Luna was under the radar until the DA, so no one would even think of her being a prefect for Ravenclaw.
      If Dumbledore had implemented a more active DADA program, it would have basically been an institutional Dumbledore’s Army, and Fudge would have had him out way earlier.

  • http://www.defyingdrama.com/ IGotTransfiguredintoa Rhubarb

    Harry has had a mother figure all his life in the form of Petunia. Be it she’s inept and treats Harry like dirt, she still instinctively cared for him as a baby, and even now she feeds him, puts clothes on his back and even made sure he received an education. Something that’s expected of all women. However, she’s a horrible spiteful woman with no sense of humour. The complete opposite of his mother and Ginny. Harry would actively seek someone who’s the complete opposite to Petunia with regards to personality and demeanor.

  • http://www.defyingdrama.com/ IGotTransfiguredintoa Rhubarb

    I love the fact that Molly buys Ron something. He’s given something to the family name. For the Weasley’s that’s rare.
    It’s also a valuable lesson. If you achieve well then you reap the rewards for it later. It also teaches you to appreciate what you have and what you receive, which Ron definitely doesn’t, but gradually learns to do so.

    • thegiantsquid

      I love that Molly does this for Ron also, but I do think that the Weasleys have plenty of family achievements. Sure, Arthur’s job isn’t glamorous, but Bill is a cursebreaker in Egypt for Gringotts. That’s pretty awesome. Charlie works with dragons, which is a pretty admirable feat of strength and endurance. Percy, even though he’s still the worst, is able to secure positions within the government directly out of school. Most of the kids, with the exception of Fred and George sometimes, seem to get decent grades and are relatively popular and charismatic. I think the Weasleys, for all their monetary misfortunes, actually have plenty of good contributed to the family name, and plenty to celebrate.

      • Hufflepug

        Exactly, and I think Ron’s biggest flaw comes from the fact that he can often be too short-sighted to appreciate those positive things. Ron wishes he was more like Harry, who for being an awesome Quidditch player and a celebrity has a pretty bad life – the exact reason why he does blow up at his friends in this book. The truth is that no one will ever have a perfect life and we have to learn how to look past those obstacles and be happy.

      • Cassandra1447

        Add on that it’s implied Arthur could have moved up in the Ministry but decided not to. He’s genuinely believes that wizards shouldn’t be allowed to abuse Muggles and appreciates Muggle innovation and technologies (while most wizards seem to think of Muggles as being idiotic and backwards). Arthur stays where he is because he is passionate about the job rather than seeking advancement for status or money.

        • thegiantsquid

          Which is pretty awesome on its own. :)

  • http://www.defyingdrama.com/ IGotTransfiguredintoa Rhubarb

    I don’t think the twins see themselves as better than Ron.
    Actually I think at this point they’re just jealous of the fact that Mrs Weasley said an inappropriate comment when Ron made prefect. ‘That’s everyone in the family!’ To which they reply ‘What’re George and I? Next door neighbours?’
    They simply just felt left out and under praised for their achievements. This probably is a contributing factor for them to progress further in their joke shop.

    • Patronuscharm357

      I agree. I don’t think Fred and George arrogantly believe they are better than Ron. If they act that way sometimes it’s just sibling rivalry.

      • http://www.defyingdrama.com/ IGotTransfiguredintoa Rhubarb

        Absolutely! Typical sibling rivalry. I know from experience. I’ve got 2 brothers and a sister.

        • Patronuscharm357

          Yes and the Weasley’s are 7!

  • Dobby’s Sock

    One thing not mentioned was Jo’s comments right before the book was released. Something along the lines:

    “In this book, a major character will die”

    This was one of the only bits of information we were given about the book, and tainted every page once it was released… the feeling that at any time, one of the trio, or someone like Dumbledore might die.

    I feel that she announced this tidbit specifically for the line “Sprawled on the dusty old carpet in a patch of moonlight, clearly dead, was Ron”

    I remember not even reading the next line, instead my jaw being dropped, and reading that sentence over and over again. That effect would never have been created if Jo hadn’t baited us for it.

    • Hufflepug

      The same goes for the Arthur Weasley scare in the middle of the book. I still remember how scared I was the entire time I first read this book. Jo sure knows what she’s doing.

    • thegiantsquid

      Was this the book where she had seriously considered actually killing Ron? I know the hosts have mentioned before that she thought about doing that, but I can’t remember where in the series.

      Love your username, btw.

      • Alan2xtreme

        Arthur was supposed to have died in the snake attack if I remember correctly, but JK gave him a reprieve

        • thegiantsquid

          Yeah, and then she killed someone else (Lupin?) later instead.

      • Hufflepug

        According to the internet she considered killing Ron while she was going through a dark time in the middle of the series so that probably means this book. That’s not to say that he would have died in OoTP though, she could have wanted to kill him in HBP or DH. Despite all his flaws, the series would be so different and probably much darker had Ron died.

        • thegiantsquid

          I agree, it would have been intensely different. Also… how incredibly heartbreaking that would be!

      • phoenixflame22

        I wonder what would have happened in books 6&7 if Ron had been killed? I honestly think it would have been a more impactful ‘lesson’ than Sirius’ death. Sirius, while representing a possible father figure for Harry, really didn’t get much time with Harry to grow that type of bond. Harry has known Ron for 4+ years to this point, has lived with him for the majority of those years and considers Ron a brother. I think the series would have taken on a much more mature and serious tone in the sense that Harry would have become almost cold and harsh to the Death Eaters and Voldemort, in essence not become ‘wimpy’ Harry that we see in the final books. It would be a really good starting off point for a fan fiction, I’m actually planning one out but I would like to know others’ opinions on what would happen if Ron had been killed in DoM?

  • noxchaser8485

    I agree with Kat, the boggart is foreshadowing. Yes war means deaths and yes the Weasley family has many members that will participate in the war, but there is a specific reason why Jo made the boggart be dead members of the family. I also believe Mrs. Weasley’s emotions are what cause the boggart to become her dead husband, children, and Harry. But that does not negate the fact that this is Jo telling us to expect someone from the Weasley family to be killed. She hints at this many times through this book.

  • Alan2xtreme

    I wanted to comment on the “Voldemort manipulating Harry’s emotional state via the horcrux” The hosts of the show seemed to state that they believe Harry was being intentionally manipulated by Voldemort during the Ron prefect scene. I believe this is not the case. I believe Snape tells Harry that Voldemort was not aware of the connection between them until the night Arthur was attacked… The visions of the corridor in the beginning of the book are caused by Voldemort’s obsession and planning to steal the prophecy. it is a 2 way door don’t forget. also remember his attempts to have others take it first which suggests he was not intentionally using harry. I could be wrong but given snape’s evidence it appears Voldemort has no clue of the connection at this time.

    • thegiantsquid

      Yeah I also don’t think it was Voldemort. I think Harry’s still just very sensitive to being “left out” like he was all summer long and still upset about not being given information. Suddenly, his best friend is given an award of sorts, with more responsibilities, that shows that he (Ron) is doing good things and is deserving of recognition, and Harry, consciously or not, feels as though he deserves this recognition, and once again people are “leaving him out.” Harry is fifteen, and I’m sure this is an absolutely normal reaction.
      I’d buy that Harry’s emotions are influenced by Voldemort’s emotions in a small way, but I don’t think they’re domineering his personality.

  • Alan2xtreme

    Let me preface this comment by saying I am a huge Potter fan but I feel that something is off with this book. I hear several of the hosts say it is their favorite and best of the series. I want to debate this. This book In my opinion is the most pointless of the series. Harry does nothing to further the story here and the book turns out the same way if Harry is removed from the book itself. Now before you begin to demand my head.. think about a few of the key points here. We spend years and 5 books wondering why Harry and in this book we learn of a prophecy that sounded impressive only to be told in book 6 that the prophecy means nothing. Voldemort at the beginning of this book knows not what the prophecy says in full and in the end its the same. He would not have strolled in the MOM to retrieve it, so remove harry nothing changes. Sirius’ death while sad is intriguing to me. I did not feel the sadness to the degree as everyone else. be honest here, Sirius was not a part of harry’s life before his death enough that he should warrant the massive uproar and response. think about it… up to the end of the book harry spent a few minutes with him in book 3, a few hours with him in book 4 (cave and fire convos) at the end of book 4 he runs off again out of necessity. and in book 5 we get part of a summer and Christmas and a few fire convos. his death was sad sure but pointless to a degree. things like the locket drop and the DA are nice but don’t save the book nor warrant the praise it garners. The overall plot of the books is unaffected by this book and its main draw being the prophecy is a let down because we are told in the very next book the prophecy is pointless. Just some thoughts would love to get some debate

    • Hufflepug

      Interesting post and I see why you feel that OoTP is pointless. Harry really does share his spotlight with many other people in this book and that broke the previous mold of Harry saving the school with a little (but not *too* much) help from his friends. However, my thought has always been that this book serves to set up the war as well as some important thematic elements. The prophecy seems to not matter at face value, but I think the fact that it shouldn’t matter is actually very important. The prophecy isn’t meant to be looked at as a set-in-stone guiding light for the future, but a fate vs. free will situation where there were two directions Voldemort could have taken upon hearing it. Jo’s favorite Shakepeare play is Macbeth and she’s cited it as an inspiration, and I think that really comes into play here: similar to how Macbeth heard the prophecy that he would become king and then killed Duncan to fulfill it, Voldemort found out that someone would be born with the power to vanquish him, took the prophecy as truth, and set out to kill Harry. Ironically, this was the point where he “marked him as his equal” and had he not listened to the prophecy it wouldn’t have come true and Voldemort probably would have successfully taken over unless Dumbledore still managed to find all the Horcruxes (probably impossible without being able to look into V’s mind). So the prophecy COULD have been pointless but Voldemort gave it meaning and acted on it to set some of Harry’s life course and the path to his own demise.

      I think the point of Sirius’s death was that Jo wanted Harry to lose another father figure. He has to fully accept death by Book 7 so he can go into the forest and unfortunately that means losing someone like that so he can understand it more and become more mature. I’m also wondering why she chose Sirius specifically though – I know she considered killing Arthur who is also a father figure, but Harry has several of them in the series: Hagrid, Remus, Dumbledore (but of course, HBP…). You have a point that he and Harry were unable to really get close. Perhaps Harry’s reaction to his death was because it was so unexpected and because he was the closest living connection that Harry had ever had to James. It’s almost like turning around and slapping Harry a second time. I wonder why he never felt as close to Remus as he did to Sirius. I mean, certainly he was important to him, but he was never as close despite the fact that he developed a deep bond with him in his third year and he was also a connection to James. Maybe it was just Sirius’s tragic history and the fact that he was his godfather and James’s best friend? I don’t know.

      Lastly (sorry this is so long, gah!) this book really has to serve as exposition for some later things to come and as a point for Harry to really mature, which can make it long-winded. It introduces several characters that will later be important (Tonks, Luna, Umbridge…), shows Harry shining in his leadership role in the DA and becoming even more of a point of reference for everyone involved in the underground rebellion, and most importantly it goes into more depth than ever about the politics and alliances of the magical world. The Order and the DA are introduced as organized institutions of rebellion in this book, the Death Eaters break out of Azkaban and grow in numbers as magical creatures like giants are already being recruited, and the Ministry is shown to be an even more corrupt institution than we thought (thanks Umbridge…) which adds a third level to the traditional good vs. evil plot. Ok I’m done now haha, sorry to make you read all of this!

    • Adam Klawitter

      It’s not that the prohpecy is pointless, exactly. Dumbledore tells Harry that on its face the prophecy is meaningless, but the thing that makes it important, nad eventually makes it come true, is Voldemort’s BELIEF in it. He knew enough of the prophecy as reported to him by Snape to believe that the child born at the end of June to the ones who’d denied him (which could easily have been the Longbottoms, had Voldemort not decided on his own that it referred to the Potters) that he believed Harry was a danger to him. The full power of the prophecy was Volemort’s belief in it, and that makes it the furthest thing from pointless. Why Harry? Because Voldemort made it so. He set Harry on the path to defeat him, based only on what he heard in the prophecy as reported by Snape. His failure to kill Harry as a baby made retrieving the globe important to him, which is why protecting it became important to the Order. Voldemort is the agent that made the prophecy important. That’s what Dumbledore explained to Harry, and what took Harry until Deathly Hallows to really understand. The true meaning wasn’t in the thing itself, but in what they chose to believe. This book, which I hated at first, is hugely important to the overall story, and Harry’s development as a person in it.

    • Elvis Gaunt

      There was a time when we were all wondering why Voldemort tried to kill baby Harry. This book offers the explanation; a prophecy had said that there has to be a final showdown between Harry and Voldemort. This is news to Harry because he is a character, but we as readers have known this from book 1 (because that’s how stories go). In fact, we also knew that Harry would win. True, Dumbledore says that Voldemort could have turned his back on the prophecy and Harry can still do so. In either case the prophecy would not be fulfilled. But, Voldemort had acted and so will Harry. What the prophecy says may not feel like new information to us and so, its easy to forget that if there had been no prophecy, there would have been no series.

  • Sycamore Combustion

    1. No one else in immediate surroundings to talk HP, we know that one!

    2. Return to Sender: Whoa, Established in Epsode 6-There is such a thing as magic . . . and perhaps the Ministry deliberately sent Erol. As for Hedwig, she was always able to sus-out a situation and/or privy to insider information.

    3. This Huff’s got your back!: Squibbs must be magically perceptive; otherwise, Filch would never be able to see Hogwarts Hogsmead, Mrs. Figg nor Eric the Ministry (that’s definitely a Squibb job). Regarding Mrs. Figg’s testimony, she’s naturally as nervous as a cat already . . . except when clobbering Dung. So, perhaps, there is an unrepresented figure in the Fountain of Magical Brethren, oh wait, there ‘e is scooping up the coins after hours.

    4. Wizengamot Redux: It is, indeed, disconcerting, to hear that children lack the requisiteability to focus necessary to succeed and yet children have read and continue to read not only this book but the entire Harry Potter series using, well, the ability to concentrate.
    Why don’t they teach the patronus earlier? “Childhood” is another culturally UK product/concept culturaly mostly realized during Edwardian times and is still a recent developement that came to the US a little later, fostering childhood development as a discipline, chil labor laws, and elementary education. They don’t teach it because “they” say so . . . to Umbridge, it’s a “one size fits all” efficiency.

    5. FGG: Quite simply, it’s the dynamic of sibblings. Remember, in GOF during the Death-Eater attack, Ginny was their responsability to protect. Mere proximatey will prompt a wide range of characteristic and habitual exchanges.

    6. Simpler, simpler-Ron focuses on the broom vecause it’s actually his and not a hand-me-down! Topped off by it being relevant to something he’s passionate about: He’s beaming.

    7. In the final analysis, the movies are fan art-gloriously high in production value and visually sumptuous, to be sure, yet as time moves on, I’m finding the books growing richer to the point thatwhat remains from the movies as timeless is the music. NB.: Doby was the only character to get two separate themes.

    8. Boogie-Woogie: Vote Team Kat. Key: “we’ll ve lucky if we all survive.”.

  • Miri Penn

    I just wanted to say that I thought the chapter discussion on this episode was brilliant! I sometimes struggle to find the patience to follow when Noah wanders off into the sunset (!) but I thought he did such a great job with the starter questions for this chapter: they weren’t too obvious and they were properly interesting and opened up the text. I think the new format has served to refresh the podcast and mix things up a bit, which is always welcome.

    So keep it up team, I am in the same boat as Sue, with very few people to talk Potter with irl, and what you are providing with this show is a real treat! Thanks :)

  • I am the Matt

    Sue was a great guess, I really loved her voice, reminded me of Alyson Hannigan.
    did anyone else see the resemblance ?

  • phoenixflame22

    Question: Just realized something, does Mrs. Weasley see Hermione dead in the boggart scene? If she didn’t, why not? Honestly, she probably has been around Hermione as long as she has Harry, if not more? Molly sees Harry as a seventh son, but not Hermione as a second daughter? Or would Hermione’s body just be the next one in the chain as Sirius, Remus and Moody burst in just after ‘dead’ Harry appears?