Episode 1, PS/SS 1-3: Yertle the Turtle

rizpahjulia · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:15 am

Oi, Arabella Figgs! Yes her!. You guys mentioned why didn't she do more to make him know that people cared for him. One thing she couldn't give away what she was up to. Also, she couldn't risk the Dursleys not allowing him to come back. If he had fun there, would the Dursleys allowed Harry to go back? I think not.

She treated him nicely. She engaged in conversation with him, even though it was about her cats, like he was an equal. She talked on what she knew, she couldn't talk about the wizarding world.... He was probably constantly uptight with the Dursleys. While he was bored out of his mind, he was relaxed with Mrs. Figgs. He had a break from fear for a brief time. Figgs wasn't completely stupid and I'd think Dumbledore told her what she should or shouldn't do to ensure her cover want blown!

KyKid942 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:15 am

rizpahjulia wrote:

Sorry for the ramble. I just started over thinking. I hope my thoughts made sense!

If rambling were a 'crime' on this site, I'd have been banned already. I think you're okay.

Snapescape · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:27 am

KyKid942 wrote:

rizpahjulia wrote:

Sorry for the ramble. I just started over thinking. I hope my thoughts made sense!

If rambling were a 'crime' on this site, I'd have been banned already. I think you're okay.

We all ramble! In fact, it would be considered odd, rizpahjulia, if you didn't ramble.

Snapescape · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:38 am

rizpahjulia wrote:

As we read further through all the books, and also received extra information from Rowling, you find out that Petunia wrote a letter to Dumbledore seeing if she could go to Hogwarts too. When Dumbledore politely told her no, she became jealous. As we evolve I believe we can manipulate emotions or lie to ourselves.

I believe Petunia went from being jealous of Lily to being angry, even though I think she loved Lily in her own way. She had to probably secretly deal with the murder of her sister who she was jealous of at one point, and then she got little Harry. She already was busy with one little one. Having her magical sisters child didn't help things.

I can also assume that Harry was already showing signs of being magical himself. That could have triggered her jealousy again and she had to manifest it into anger. In essence I think she dealt with things the best way she knew how. I do not think she was naive to anything in the magical world. She knew a lot more than she seemed to know.

Example: At the end of SS/PS, Hagrid mentions to Harry that the Dursleys didn't know Harry wasn't allowed to do magic while on holiday from school...... But Petunia should have known otherwise because of Lily!

As for Vernon I do believe he was completely ignorant towards anything about the magical world. Petunia liked it like that. I believe she allowed him to come up with his own conclusions. When he came up with the worst or false information she probably didn't correct him before Harry went to Hogwarts because of her jealousy and she wanted to keep it that way. As more comes out, even with Dumbledores "remember my last", she becomes slightly more humane. I even think her eyes opened more because Harry's life was endangered. She realized how bad things were. She may have not really known everything but she knew something was going on. I mean even muggles saw the effect of the war!!!!

You also see that the more Petunia becomes more humane, so does Dudley. A mothers attitude can change her childs. Petunia so many years full of hate or anger. I think at some point if we live like that, we break. She broke some. I think even the last time she saw Harry she gave him an non-vocalized apology. We know in a way Dudley did! He wasn't all bad. He just had a bad influence. The dementors broke that!

Ok I went way beyond ss/ps. Sorry for the ramble. I just started over thinking. I hope my thoughts made sense!

I've never really thought of Petunia in much depth. She just always seemed to be a character that for me didn't evolve much and wasn't really worth the time to try and figure out what she's about. But she's actually really interesting! It makes sense now to think that Petunia was probably very jealous of Harry when it turned out that he was magical. Although she in no way has the same relationship with him as she did with her sister, she is still missing out on having magical abilities and seeing her son-in-law display special feats probably re-awakened all the anger, jealousy and exclusion that she felt as a child.

I came across a brief but actually quite insightful description of how Petunia has been feeling all these years, living and having to look after Harry, by the narrator: [this takes place after Hagrud has told Harry that he's a wizard] "She stopped to draw breath and then went ranting on. It seemed she had been wanting to say all this for years" Upon rereading this, I just seemed to understand Petunia's character much better. She is obviously jealous of Harry of his magical abilities but is also very angry that he is disrupting the comfortable and normal life she could have had with her husband Vernon. She probably tries to convince herself that magic is stupid, and Vernon helps her to believe this with his incenssant ignorant comments and just lack of knowledge about wizards ("I'm not paying for some crackpot old fool to teach him magic tricks!"). And on top of this, she doesn't want to appear like she knows anything about the world that her husband is so opposed to. So she keeps it all in. And eventually her anger, her jealousy, her knowledge all comes rushing out.

Phoenix · **Joined:** Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:35 pm **Posts:** 64

KyKid942 wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Proof by assertion:
You're wrong! You're wrong! You're wrong! And what's more, you're just plain wrong!

Well, I can't deny I was imagining somthing slightly different when I wrote "proven", but making me smile might be even more welcome than proving me wrong.

Phoenix · **Joined:** Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:35 pm **Posts:** 64

Concerning the question of wizard vs. muggle protection by sacrfice:

In book 4, ch. 33 (the same bit of Voldemort's speech that KyKid942 quoted on p. 2), Voldemort says:

„But how to get at Harry Potter? For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care. Not even I can touch him there…“

Unless Voldemort is mistaken about the way love protection magic works (after all, it's not his area of expertise), this seems to imply that a sacrifice won't give you protection automatically. It seems to require a wizard (and presumably a rather powerful one) to "activate" the protection. If we assume that this kind of magic is not widely known -- it is "ancient", Voldemort thinks it has been "devised by Dumbledore", and even McGonagall doesn't seem fully aware of its significance, nor do the Weasleys, who try to persuade Dumbledore to send Harry over to stay with them right away -- it seems like this type of protection is not at all common. In my view, Harry may well be the only person under this protection at the moment.
However, this wouldn't necessarily exclude Muggle families from using that protection, provided that a wizard "activates" it for them.

How this fits with the protection Harry gives to his fellow warriors in the battle of Hogwarts, I have no idea. Maybe this is yet another kind of protective magic that we're presented with.

skgai · **Posted:** Tue May 01, 2012 11:08 pm

Wow, great catch Phoenix! That totally reverses my opinion on the matter. That makes me question: Can this protective magic only be used to protect a soul that's hiding a horcrux? That would actually make a lot of sense because Harry isn't protected at all in Little Winging by anything, but Voldemort. The Dementors had no trouble attacking him. Dobby could come and go as he pleased. The Weasley's could visit. It seems to keep out the Death Eaters though. I'm not sure though. I think Voldemort could walk right up to Harry at the Dursely's house, but he could not hurt him in anyway. Does anyone agree with that?

I guess I'm not sure what to think now. Of course Voldemort could just be wrong. He could have assumed Dumbledore's greatness and ignored Lily's magic. That's also plausible, but something tells me he knows the whole truth here. He's had 13 years to learn what's protecting Harry, surely his arrogance didn't cloud his vision on that subject.

Does this theory only apply to Harry's protection at home or did Dumbledore invoke the charm with Lily once hearing of the Dark Lord's discovery of the prophecy? Wow too many more questions here, I'll have to come back to this one.

KyKid942 · **Posted:** Tue May 01, 2012 11:39 pm

Phoenix wrote:

Concerning the question of wizard vs. muggle protection by sacrfice:

In book 4, ch. 33 (the same bit of Voldemort's speech that KyKid942 quoted on p. 2), Voldemort says:

„But how to get at Harry Potter? For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care. Not even I can touch him there…“

Unless Voldemort is mistaken about the way love protection magic works (after all, it's not his area of expertise), this seems to imply that a sacrifice won't give you protection automatically. It seems to require a wizard (and presumably a rather powerful one) to "activate" the protection. If we assume that this kind of magic is not widely known -- it is "ancient", Voldemort thinks it has been "devised by Dumbledore", and even McGonagall doesn't seem fully aware of its significance, nor do the Weasleys, who try to persuade Dumbledore to send Harry over to stay with them right away -- it seems like this type of protection is not at all common. In my view, Harry may well be the only person under this protection at the moment.
However, this wouldn't necessarily exclude Muggle families from using that protection, provided that a wizard "activates" it for them.

How this fits with the protection Harry gives to his fellow warriors in the battle of Hogwarts, I have no idea. Maybe this is yet another kind of protective magic that we're presented with.

I believe that the protection mentioned wards Harry against Voldemort and his magic. (Apparently, this would extend to the Death Eaters, because they are agents of Voldemort. The Dementors, as agents of the Ministry (and of Dolores Umbridge in particular), are not bound by that protection.)

I think that Dumbledore did something to attach the protection to the house and surrounding area, and to extend/increase the protection, but, based on the fact that Harry's self-sacrifice protected everyone at Hogwarts without anyone knowingly doing anything to activate it, I would say that Voldemort couldn't have touched Harry or harmed him with his magic until after Harry's blood (and the protection contained within it) had been made part of his body in the Little Hangleton graveyard scene at the end of GoF.

I'm thinking as I type here (never a good idea), but I think this (the protection granted by Lily's sacrifice and, under my proposition, is automatically invoked and is able to be terminated by "becoming one" with the beneficiary of the sacrifice) doesn't explain why Privet Drive remained safe for Harry even after Voldemort had taken Harry's blood into him. I'm still working on that part. Keep chiming in, because it looks like I need the help.

rizpahjulia · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 1:15 am

I feel like an idiot now..... I was just able to listen to the podcast.... and my whole argument was covered about how Petunia was jealous....... :-(

Snodge · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 2:07 am

My impression of Dumbledore invoking ancient magic was that by placing Harry with his family, THAT is what invoked the ancient magic; the "spell" would have been a magical person choosing to die to protect someone. It seems so similar in feel to Aslan in the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, when he sacrifices himself for Narnia; to me, it feels the same and is centred around the concept of love as much as it is around magic in general.

Episode 1, PS/SS 1-3: Yertle the Turtle

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