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Episode 4: PS/SS Chapters 9-10 An Abundance of Bogies






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Transcript


Posted by Noah Fried on June 03 2012 12:12 PM (56 Comments)


Comments
Ahh I havent finished the reading!!! I can't wait to listen though!
- Tweak6 on June 03 2012 01:28 PM



I just listened to the podcast and I really liked it. But about the thing of objects you let vanish, in chapter 30 of deathly hallows, before mcgaunagol goes into the common room of Ravenclaw she gets the question were lost objects go. She answered that they go into non being wich is to say everyting. With non being I think they really do not exist anymore, but in the everything.. that could say that those atoms en molecules really turn into air. So it really could be both ways
- Cissy Flower on June 03 2012 03:17 PM



Downloading right now! And will listen in soon! I just hope there's a low bandwidth version... but still excited to listen to it!
- lovelle on June 03 2012 07:23 PM



What chapters are we supposed to read for the next podcast?
- KyKid942 on June 03 2012 10:13 PM



My exceptions to the Gamp's law of Elemental Transfiguration:
1) Food.
2) Air - so if you are underwater you can't turn the water around you into air to breathe.
3) Electricity - you can't transfigure electricity into something else/ transfigure something into electricity.
4) Fire - although you can create fire with a charm or set things alight, you can't literally turn something into a flame.
5) Water - you can send a jet of water out of your wand but you can't completely turn a pig into water.

Also on the topic of transfiguration, we know from a conversation about people becoming an animagus that if you transfigure yourself into an animal you literally become that animal, with those thoughts and feelings, so I think if you turn a desk into a pig it literally becomes a pig.
- SlytherinGirl on June 04 2012 07:50 AM



Gawp`s Law of Elemental Transfiguration :
HERMIONE clearly states in DH that the 5 exeptions are : FOOD , MONEY , LOVE , INTELLIGENCE AND LIFE
- incognitovalentino on June 04 2012 08:58 PM



Or if I am mistaken it is possible that JKR said this in an interview and not Hermione in the books. Also about vanishing i always imagining that instead of transforming the atoms you would just split them apart with big distances between them (like 1 atom in France another in Italy and so on). So you would vanish but tehnically you would be everywhere. Same would apply to dissparation and when you would apparate simply all atoms would concentrate and refort to a certain spot.
- incognitovalentino on June 04 2012 09:01 PM



Hmmm can someone help us locate this quote?
- Noah Fried on June 04 2012 09:44 PM



I have had a problem with the whole "no food can be created" thing ever since I first read it. What exactly counts as "food"? You could eat basically anything, even if you normally wouldn't, so wouldn't that mean you could not create anything? And, like you said, you have the potential to kill and transfigured desk-pig and turn it into bacon, so wouldn't that also count as food? However, I also thought that maybe this could be fixed by saying that you can only create food if you are not intending to use it as food, but for some other purpose. Tell me what you think!
- Hippogriff on June 04 2012 10:16 PM



Also, I don't think electricity is one because wizards don't even really know about electricity, so why would they want to create it?
- Hippogriff on June 04 2012 10:19 PM



This is true Hippogriff. You can pretty much eat anything... We can only assume this means that you cannot create something with nutritional value out of something that has none. So, as we decided on the show, you can certainly eat that desk-pig but it won't do much for you.
- Noah Fried on June 04 2012 10:26 PM



Oh ok I see. But still, tree bark for example might have a great source of a certain mineral or whatever, but it is not typically thought of as human food.
- Hippogriff on June 04 2012 11:54 PM



I still think you could eat the pig! A pig is a pig, and the desk is a pig. Pigs are bacon and ham no matter what, so the pig is eatible, and nutritional! I just can't see how it couldn't be!
- Ali Wood on June 05 2012 12:20 AM



I loved this episode!
- MapleFeather on June 05 2012 06:29 PM



I don't really know where to post this, as I am still finding my way around, but I wanted to adress what Celab said on this episode, about how he was convinced that the ghost in tights was the Grey Lady. I don't think so. I know that apparently the ghosts can change their clothes (such as Nick with the new neck ruff at his death day party) but think of what time period she was from. Women didn't wear tights or trousers. It was thought inproper for a girl to wear anything but a full length skirt. As it is never mentioned as to what gender the ghost is, I just assume that it is a male because of the time period that most of the ghosts seem to be from.
- MapleFeather on June 05 2012 06:53 PM



I"m with Ali - a pig is a pig...and I will eat that pig!
- OwlSnitch5132 on June 05 2012 09:08 PM



I've always imagined the place where vanished objects go kind of like the room where of hidden objects in the Room of Requirement-just one huge room with a lot of junk.
Kind of like 'the space between spaces', the phrase you hear in science fiction movies and tv shows. You can't see it, you can't go there, and if you do you can't ever leave, because there's no door.
Which makes me think, is it possible to vanish a person? The Ravenclaw door asks "Where do vanished objects go", emphasis on the word objects. What would happen if you tried to vanish a person? Would they go into The Nothing also, or is it like the food creating and it just can't be done? Perhaps that's another law of Gawmps-if vanishing can be counted as Transfiguration (which makes sense, because it transfigures the object to become something else, which disappears).
- Elphaba26 on June 05 2012 10:16 PM



First of all, and pretty random: I think Rosie's voice sounds like Bonnie Wright.
Second, about the brooms and the flying: Isn't Hemione just afraid of heights? I didn't look it up, but I think she wasn't comfortable with any flying (thestrals, dragons, hippogriffs). And I guess that when you're nervous, you send out mixed messages and the broom reacts to that. Just like when someone isn't confident riding a car. And I don't think brooms are like wands, they don't help the user in that way. I think the more expensive brooms are just really well made. With all the twigs aligned or whatever. And I think a good flyer does better on a cleansweep, than a bad flyer on a nimbus.
- Nightmoon28924 on June 06 2012 03:33 AM



i agree with nightmoon, I think that brooms are somewhat like horses; a good one will be very responsive and listen well, where a poorly trained one will need more intense direction. The difference is that a horse can think for itself, so it is less likely that you will run into something while riding a horse than a broom. I think that what makes a broom good is that is can turn with hardly any direction at all, so the most subtle signals will work.
- Hippogriff on June 06 2012 09:24 AM



Regarding transfiguration, they talked about the laments and nuclear reactions but I think that transfiguration can only occur when the atom of carbon is present. For instance, Proffessor M can transfigured the desk into a pig as the wood contains the carbon atom (along with everything living and organic) but you cannot transfigured food from the air and the carbon atom isn't present in it's purest form.
- Jack1234 on June 06 2012 11:02 AM



When they talked about brooms one person said that they dpn't know the type of wood the broom had. that's not true. the book tells us the broom is made out of mahogany, which is James' wand wood. This made me think about why the broom was so positive to Harry, did the broom feel James through Harry because of the mahogany connection????
- Jack1234 on June 06 2012 11:10 AM



When you guys talked about Peeves and the fact that he was always at Hogwarts and he had always been at Hogwarts, Inthought of how the polygamist was made. You talked about how you think it was craved with the four founders which Zi think as well. but more precisely I think it happend when Salazar left the castle as Ten Sorting Hat depicts on his song in Harry Potter an deth Order Of the Pheonix Cahpter Eleven The Sorting Hats New Song.
- Jack1234 on June 06 2012 11:25 AM



To what Noah said about where Vanished objects go, to another plane or if they are just erased. In chapter 30 of Deathly Hallows, Amycus Carrow is trying to get into Ravenclaw Tower. The eagle door knocker asks that same question. Then Professor McGonagall comes along and answers the question quite nicely . . . .
"Where do Vanished objects go?"[says the eagle knocker]
"Into nonbeing, which is to say, everything," replied Professor McGonagall. . . .
It makes sense that she can answer this question so easily, as it is pointed out during the show that Vanishment is a kind of Transfiguration. She would, as the Transfiguration teacher, have to know. Bit interesting to think that, technically, you could be breathing in all sorts of Vanished objects while in the Transfiguration classroom.
- MapleFeather on June 06 2012 11:39 AM



Oh, and Kat: I belive that the pronoucation of "Reparifarge" is "reparifar-ge", that is to say, with the 'e' pronounced and with a soft 'g' as in 'gold'. this because all of Jo's spells were based in latin, and that is how the 'g' and 'e' would be pronounced. Hope this helps!
- MapleFeather on June 06 2012 11:49 AM



I think that The Gray Lady saw herself being praised by her mother. All he wanted was to be smart like her mother. So its probably like Ron who saw himself important amongst his brothers. -- And as I understood it The Bloody Baron was in love with TGL not the other way around. She cared for but not truly inlove. So he would see her but I dont think she'd see him.
- Prof-River-Song on June 06 2012 08:01 PM



^ Quick note to Jack1234, Peeves is a poltergeist, not a polygamist. A polygamist is someone who has multiple spouses.
- Hippogriff on June 06 2012 09:24 PM



Professor M says in the last book when the knobs asks where do vanished objects go
she said into nonbeing or eveything.
- Doctor1137 on June 06 2012 10:54 PM



I heard a theory that Zacharias Smith was a descendant of Helga Hufflepuff. We heard the Hepzibah Smith is related to her, so is it possible that Zacharias is related to Hepzibah, and therefore Helga Hufflepuff? Is that why he got Hufflepuff instead of Slytherin?

The Remembrall was forshadowing that Neville had/would forget the password to the common room.

I don't think that Petunia would let Vernon hit Harry. He may have when Petunia was not around, but Petunia would never let him. She may not have cared for him, but he is her sisters child. When Vernon tried to kick Harry out in the fifth book, she wouldn't let him after receiving the howler. Maybe she wouldn't let him hit Harry out of fear, but I think it was more that that.

Hrmione did not know the Bat-Bogey hex. she said "If either of you get us caught, I'll never rest until I've learned that Curse of the Bogies Quirrell told us about, and used it on you."
- FlightQuest91 on June 06 2012 11:04 PM



I think that Vernon did hit Harry. Think of all the horrible forms of punishment the Dursley's used on Harry. Does it really make sense for them to have some sort of compassion to not hit Harry? Plus, with Harry being so non-chalant about "wood" meaning a beating cane instead of a person, it is pretty easy to assume he was exposed to this sort of punishment. He probably was hit for major offenses which is why he thought a cane for disobeying the teacher was normal.
- SneakySnape25 on June 07 2012 12:29 PM



I'm not sure in which episode it was, but I think you guys were discussing the Fidelius charm, and were questioning why they chose Wormtail. One of your suggested that perhaps the secret-keeper couldn't be the owner of the property - thus Dumbledore, not Sirius, was chosen for Grimmauld Place, and Womrtail, not Lily or James, was chosen for their home in Godric's Hollow. However, I'm reading DH now, and there is a line from Bill, when they've just arrived at Shell Cottage after being at Malfoy Manor, saying that the Weasley family has been moved to Aunt Muriel's, and that they were protected via Fidelius Charm, with Arthur being the secret keeper there - which makes sense with what you guys said. But then he goes on to say that he is the secret-keeper for Shell Cottage. I'm pretty the cottage used to be someone else's in the family, but since Bill and Fleur are living there now full-time, isn't it technically their place? Which would mean that you could be secret-keeper of your own place, which I guess just makes it even more questionable as to why Lily and James would chose Wormtail (besides plot advancement!)
- melissa72 on June 07 2012 02:49 PM



If we continue with the theory that Quidditch is some kind of analogy for gender politics, with the Snitch being the more feminine aspect, it gets really problematic really quickly when one takes into account what we learn about Snitches in Deathly Hallows.

Page 127 of the US version:
“A Snitch is not touched by bare skin before it is released, not even by the maker, who wears gloves. It carries an enchantment by which it can identify the first human to lay hands upon it, in case of a disputed capture. This Snitch ... will remember your touch, Potter."

So it's not touched until it needs to be of use, and then, it's bonded to the very first person to ever touch it with bare skin. I'm really hoping that this isn't reflective of JKR's views on women!

Also, it raises the question: what happens to Snitches after they're used? Is there a Snitch preserve somewhere? And how high is Hogwarts' Snitch budget, anyway?
- the head girl on June 07 2012 09:54 PM



Thanks for that comment head girl. You're right - that reading is incredibly problematic!

The fact of it having the ability to open to its first "caprturer" I never even considered... brilliant connection.
- Noah Fried on June 07 2012 10:06 PM



headgirl, I don't understand your question. Why couldn't snitches be made by women? Before a snitch was used, they used a bird. The bird was killed when caught in a Quidditch game and they became an endangered species. Bowman Wright invented the Snitch. He was a skilled metal-charmer and created a ball that mimicked the behavior and flight patterns of the Snidget. It's silvery wingshad rotational joints like the Snidget's,enabling it to change directions with lightning speed. It was also charmed to stay within the boundaries of the field. Who said that it opened to its first capturer? I have the book "Quidditch through the ages" and there is no mention of a snitch opening when it is caught. Dumbledore put a charm or spell on Harry's first Snitch, only because he needed to hide the Resurrection stone. What woulld Scrimegeour have done if he spotted the ring? He probably would have kept it because it looked valuable.
- merrymarge on June 08 2012 06:29 PM



Merrymarge: I'm not saying Snitches can't be made by women, not at all. In fact, I bet they make gorgeous ones!

What I was saying, though, is that if one considers the Snitch to be the more "feminine" part of Quidditch (as was hypothesized, briefly, on the podcast), and one takes into account all the information we learn about Snitches in DH, it all comes together to make a rather archaic and, in my opinion, problematic view of women. The Snitch is never touched by bare flesh until the game (ie, a girl remains 'pure' [by choice or by force] until marriage) when it is to be used and caught (when she can be of use to society by submitting to her husband). It's got an enchantment on it so it can always identify the first person to capture it (the woman will always be bonded to the first person to touch her) in case of a disputed capture (like if she was with someone else before her husband).

Harry's Snitch adds the extra layer of 'opening to' its first capturer, like Noah said up above, which, again, can be taken to a rather worrying conclusion about women.

Like they said in the podcast, it's a streeeeetch, but I hope this cleared some stuff up for you! :)
- the head girl on June 08 2012 06:52 PM



I feel certain that the Golden Snitch represents the spiritual aspect of the series. It is all Harry seeks, the goal, the end of the game. It is all that he needs to accomplish his task. All through the books he is merely practicing when he plays Quidditch, but by the end the Golden Snitch will contain the last knowledge required for transcendence and enlightenment.
- nana on June 09 2012 03:16 PM



I wanted to share my point of view on the transfiguration of inanimate objects into animals. I feel that when something is transfigured into, lets say, a pig, life is not created. The molecules of the desk would be rearranged to that of a pig, however the pigs movements only mimic life. Much in the same way that we see inanimate objects often given life-like characteristics. Furthermore, I believe that unless the transfiguration is magically undone, or the witch/wizard who originally performed the magic dies, the desk would stay in pig form forever. This means that bacon and ham can be made and enjoyed as long as the original magic was powerful and complex enough to completely make the desk into a pig. I do, however, agree with that statement made on this weeks podcast that no nutritional value could be drawn from the desk-pig. Only a ton of fiber...
- DumbleDoor on June 09 2012 04:14 PM



First off, I love the podcast. I find myself responding, nodding, and laughing while listening all the time. (I'm sure anyone who sees me things I'm a nutter!)
I have always thought that Hermione's nervousness about brooms is because she's afraid of heights. In later books she's a bit reluctant to fly on anything. Perhaps it's because she's been raised in a world where people only fly in big mechanical devices and she's a bit unesy about being in the air with nothing steel to protect her.
Also - the conversation about eating a transfigured pig is so much fun. But why didn't Hermione do something like that when they were hiding in GH? I'm sure Ron would have eaten a desk-pig.
- ProfessorBobbi on June 10 2012 02:20 PM



I spent the entire time I listened to your podcast really annoyed because I wish I could have called in and been like I KNOW WHERE VANISHED OBJECTS GO! "Into non-being, which is to say, everything." Pg. 591, book 7. McGonagall.
If the Ravenclaw door saw this as an acceptable answer, we too have to accept it. I think it is basically about entropy, destruction feeding back into creation like the phoenix.
- RoryMinelor on June 10 2012 05:16 PM



I was listening to the podcast again, and I thought of two more things. First of all, Caleb, Hermione is said Her-MY-o-knee, the emphasis is on the "my". Sorry, it was just driving me mad the entire time :)
Second, Harry and Draco do have a duel: it just takes 5 years for it to happen. They duel in the bathroom in HBP where Harry uses Sectumsempra, and they have a duel of sorts as two trios. And, Malfoy chooses Crabbe as his second. Crabbe is killed in DH in the R of R...an odd, and somewhat sinister connection I noticed!
- Ali Wood on June 10 2012 11:58 PM



You guys said that you wanted What if questions. I've got a couple.
What if Ron had been unsuccessful at the levitating charm during the Troll attack?
What if Draco hadn't acted so stuck up at Madam Malkins? Would they have become friends?
What if it was Neville instead of Harry? (I'm sure we all probably asked that one after the fifth book)
What if Sirius had been able to convince Hagrid to let him take Harry, or had taken him before Hagrid got there?

As to the discussion on whether the Dursleys beat Harry, it is either that or he has really fast reflexes. In CoS it says towards the end of the first chapter, "Harry paid dearly for his moment of fun. As neither Dudley nor the hedge was in any way hurt, Aunt Petunia knew he hadn't really done magic, but he still had to duck as she aimed a heavy blow at his head with the soapy frying pan. Then she gave him work to do with the promise he wouldn't eat again until he'd finished."

I loved the connection to science and also really hope that magic is that easy to explain.

Side note to Ali Wood, how in the world do you make those connections? ^
- Kriddle on June 14 2012 01:00 AM



It just hit me when the hosts were talking about wanting to see a duel, I just thought, wait! There is a duel in HBP! And then it just snowballed from there. :)
- Ali Wood on June 14 2012 11:10 PM



As for the snitch's at Hogwarts, what if they only have a few snitch's. We can assume they have at least one for practicing, were the flesh memories wouldn't matter, and they don't seem to have disputes as to who caught the snitch first at Hogwarts, so would they really need that many?

I have a 'what if' What if Harry was no good at Quidditch? There may be now immediate effect, but how would Dumbledore get Harry the Resurection Stone later on?
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