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Podcast Question of the Week






We did it! The last chapter of the book - and here it is, the last question I shall pose to you all on Philosopher's Stone:

As you heard, there was some contention between mine and Rosie's theory about what would have happened to Harry if Quirrell had successfully shot an Avada Kedavra at him.

Our question to you this week is simple: Just what would have happened to Harry!? Would he have been spared by Lily's love-magic once again? - or would that have been the end to a much shorter series?


Leave your answers in the comments below and we will read some of them on the next episode of Alohomora!

Transcript


Posted by Noah Fried on July 28 2012 07:03 PM (37 Comments)


Comments
I do think the Harry will still be saved by Lily's love-magic. If the love-magic can save Harry from an unforgivable curse from the most evil and [most] powerful wizard of all time, it can also save him from any other wizard. 'nuff said! LOL!~
- lovelle on July 28 2012 08:16 PM



I think Harry would've been saved. But this question did make me think. When Harry was hit by the Killing Curse, it's Dumbledore that he talks to. Dumbledore makes it very clear that it is Harry's choice to stay or "get on the train". If he would've been hit by the curse, who would've been there? I would assume that the person has to be dead to have talked to Harry, but at this point in the book there is no one that Harry trusts who is dead. So, I think the magic would've worked, but in a different way.
- killey2011 on July 28 2012 09:51 PM



Killey2011 has a very good point, but there are two people Harry trusts who are dead -- his parents.

I personally think Lily's protection would have worked once again, but for a slightly different reason. Voldemort was controlling Quirrell, so if Quirrell had managed an Avada Kedavra, it would have essentially been Voldemort's cast, not Quirrell's.

Granted, with Quirrell's wand ... but still, I believe that had that occurred, Lily's protection would have worked for Harry and the AK would have sought its twin. Thus, the unintentional Horcrux would have been destroyed (way too early! ;-)

I'm not 100% sure Harry would have gone to King's Cross. I'm not sure he was mature enough at that point. I think he would simply have reawoken, Horcrux-free, with a stunned Quirrell/Voldemort still across from him. Or, as weak as Voldemort was at that point, perhaps the effort would have done him in in Quirrell-form, now with the other Horcruxes to "sustain" him and things would have proceeded as they did, but with the significant difference of no Harry Horcrux.

If he had gone to King's Cross -- I think Lily and James would have made the choices available clear to him, and he would have chosen to return to the mortal plane and carry on.

Really really good question!
- Aragog141 on July 29 2012 02:19 AM



Aragog141: I did debate mentioning his parents, and then that started making me spin some pretty wild theories. Would his parents have been able to separate themselves as much as Dumbledore was able to?
- killey2011 on July 29 2012 02:50 AM



I don't think that Harry would have gone to the King's Cross scene had he been hit with the curse. Noah is right in that blood tethered Harry to life. Jo has said that when Voldemort took Harry's blood and love protection into his body, it acted like a Horcrux for Harry (except that it wasn't damaging to Harry's soul). I think the only reason he survived in DH is because of this blood anchoring him to life, and that is the only thing stopping him from dying along with the piece of Voldemort's soul that was inside of him. In the PS scene though, Harry doesn't have that fail-safe, so I think he indeed could have died at that point. Dumbledore even says later in the chapter that he had pulled Harry off of Quirrell just in time to stop the effort of fighting Quirrell from killing him. So that seems to indicate that he was very close to death. I think the only thing that could have possibly saved him if he'd been hit by the curse, was if the fact that Voldemort was sharing the body that produced that curse enacted the love protection.
- ZeoRegrediens on July 29 2012 11:54 PM



But is the blood that anchors Harry the blood that Voldemort took, or would the bloodline he shares with Petunia work as well? After all, the charm was sealed when Petunia took Harry in. So does Petunia have a bit of this magic inside her as well? Certainly, Harry does not have all his layers of protection at the time (Horcrux, blood, wand, and Hallows are what I consider his layers of protections, and at this point, obviously, the Hallows are missing and we're discussing the blood, so...) so would he have been less able to defend himself? He also didn't know Expelliarmus, which is his counter-attack (nearly always) against Voldemort's Killing Curses. If, however, Petunia's blood would keep him anchored, I think he would have had a choice, but would be far more likely to choose to go on to be with his parents. They are, at this point, the only people he has lost, and he doesn't have as many people to go back to either. If Petunia's blood does not offer that anchor, then I think Harry would have died.
- Ali Wood on July 30 2012 12:30 AM



Huh. I've never thought about Petunia's blood anchoring Harry too. I'm inclined to think that it doesn't though. Voldemort doesn't just share the blood of a relation like Petunia, he has Harry's actual blood. And it's Harry's actual blood that has the protection. Petunia's blood is obviously the next closest thing but it needed Dumbledore's spell/charm to provide any protection for Harry. And Dumbledore did have that "gleam of triumph" after Harry told him about Voldy taking his blood. I don't think that triumph would have happened if Harry was already protected because of Petunia.
- ZeoRegrediens on July 30 2012 02:40 AM



I think Harry would not have died because if Quirrell can not touch Harry, his curse can not "touch" him, too.
But if Harry had died the part of Voldemort's soul would have died, too. It would not be a much shorter story because someone else would have the task to destroy the horcruxes and Voldemort. Maybe this would be a book series about Ron and Hermione or maybe about Neville.

Eule ist the German word for owl.
- Eule on July 30 2012 02:52 AM



ZeoRegrediens: "In the PS scene though, Harry doesn't have that fail-safe, so I think he indeed could have died at that point. Dumbledore even says later in the chapter that he had pulled Harry off of Quirrell just in time to stop the effort of fighting Quirrell from killing him. So that seems to indicate that he was very close to death."

This is a very good point (and very much canon), so I would tend to agree with it. Eule: I think yours is a good idea, but part of magic (in my opinion only!) is the concept of performing actions outward through the amplifying/controlling channel of one's wand. Thus I'd disagree in that Quirrell's curse might indeed have been able to "touch" Harry where his hands could not.

Then again, if it had been "just" Quirrell (without his present company) acting, then I'd agree with you ... except that then (without his 'companion'), I bet Quirrell *would* have been able to touch Harry. Hm.

Killey2011: you make a very astute point. I think whether or not Lily and James would have been able to be objective and unbiased enough to help Harry in a King's Cross-type situation would depend on how much they knew at that point.

What do you learn when you go through the veil? Do you see all and know all up to that point? Is there some access to future knowledge? Might Lily and James have known Harry had become an unintentional Horcrux? Some pretty wild theories come out of that, as you say!

I look forward to discussing more of them down the road (OotP and DH). :-)
- Aragog141 on July 30 2012 03:16 AM



I just think Harry's Horcrux would have died.

Or maybe the protection would still be intact, because as we know, it breaks when Harry becomes of age. Either way, there would still be another book>
- thegoldensnitch_15 on July 30 2012 11:22 AM



when it comes to the Kings Cross scene it's important to remember that it's "all in my (Harry's) head". Harry is not having a conversation with Dumbledore but with his subconscious. He could have seen anyone he wanted to talk to weather they were dead or not.
Harry would not have survived because an important thing was missing: Voldemort's wand. Quirrell using his wand saying the curse could have killed Harry just as any other Death Eater/wizard could have.
I have a real problem with the idea that Petunia's blood would have saved Harry as that means he was never in any real danger at any point in the entire series. I agree with ZeoRegrediens on this.
- Hulk-Harry on July 30 2012 09:04 PM



In Deathly Hallows, Dumbledore tells Snape during The Prince's Tale that it's very important that Voldemort himself be the one to kill Harry. So does that mean that the only way Harry could have had the King's Cross moment was if the one who creates the Horcrux, Voldemort, is also the one to kill the Horcrux? If so, then I think any killing curse Quirrell would try would only kill Harry and not the piece of Voldemort's soul meaning Harry would have died and not returned.
- LumosNight3 on July 31 2012 01:27 AM



Do we even think Quirrell is a competent enough wizard to cast the killing curse?
- muggleborn on July 31 2012 01:54 AM



Ah, but Dumbledore says, "Of course it's all in your head Harry, but why on earth should that mean it is not real?" So it could not just be in Harry's head...we'll never know! We also have to remember that Quirrell has Voldemort attached to his soul, so I think it would have been just like Voldemort killing him. Harry was certainly in danger, even if Petunia's blood was tying him to life, just as he was when Voldemort taking his blood was tying him to life. I think Quirrell is certainly capable of casting the Killing Curse; he was a Ravenclaw after all, he does have quite an good brain (though he didn't seem to use it when he went looking for Voldemort...)
- Ali Wood on July 31 2012 02:03 PM



The question of Quirrell being a competent enough wizard is a great point, but it seems that Voldemort's abilities are transferred into him, as they are attached. And we all know Voldemort has no difficulty performing the Killing Curse and as Ali Wood said, he was a Ravenclaw. I'm very confident that the spell would've had no effect on Harry because of the "love-sheild." As they theorized in the podcast, Voldemort is gradually becoming a part of Quirrell. Therefore, by the end of the year, they would've been so laced together that the spell would have the same effect as Voldemort in his own form is casting the spell.
- WingKnight40 on July 31 2012 04:08 PM



The question you've posed makes me wonder that if Quirrel/Voldemort had indeed succeeded in casting the Avada Kedavra curse, would Harry perhaps not die but instead because of Lily's original "love-magic," history would repeat itself and he (Harry) would get another scar? Or perhaps his present scar would become deeper and Voldemort could more easily penetrate his mind as he does often throughout the series.
- Willowswanderings on July 31 2012 04:52 PM



I still don't think Petunia's blood was tying Harry to life. Harry's blood was the blood that had the love protection in it and Voldemort took this blood into his body, along with the love protection. Petunia doesn't have that magic protection in her blood but she is a blood relative of the person who created that magic. So Dumbledore was able to tie some protection to the place where she dwells as long as Harry called it home. I'm still on the fence about whether or not the love protection would activate since Quirrell was sharing his body with Voldemort. I suppose it depends on whether the curse he cast was with magic entirely his own, or whether some of Voldemorts magical auror leaked into it as well.
- ZeoRegrediens on July 31 2012 09:57 PM



Whether or not Petunia is anchoring Harry to earth, there's no reason to believe that the love magic wouldn't work again. From the Pottermore quote that was in the podcast, we learn that Quirrell was "greatly depleted" by fighting Voldemort's soul. So, like a parasite, Voldemort was gradually taking over Quirrell's body/soul/mind. When the curse was cast, I'd say that Quirrell was at least 75% Voldemort and 25% himself. So it was Voldemort's curse and only the Harry Horcrux would have been destroyed.
But what would have happened to Voldemort? In King's Cross, Dumbledore says that his soul was so unstable that it split apart unintentionally when he tried to kill Harry the first time. What if it split again? Could Voldemort have destroyed the Harry Horcrux and then made another Harry Horcrux? We also know that Voldemort at least blacked out when Harry "died" in DH. Did he go to a King's Cross-type place as well? If he did, he would have done so in PS if Quirrell had cast the curse? Would he have the strength to return without a body to return to? We know he can't die because of all the other Horcruxes. So would he have been stuck between life and death forever?
Also, I started wondering whether the love magic only works against Voldemort's *magic*. What if Voldemort had simply tried to behead Harry with a sword? Would Harry have died without any King's Cross moments? We know that regular Horcruxes can't be destroyed by mundane means, so if Lily's magic worked, would the Harry Horcrux have been destroyed?
Sorry, I didn't mean to ask so many questions, but this question generates a lot of what ifs!
- suprememugwump on August 01 2012 08:11 PM



I think that Harry would have gone to King's Cross, as Quirrell/Voldemort would only have succeeded in destroying the Harry Horcrux. However, the series would probably be significantly shorter, as this would alert Dumbledore to the fact that Voldemort had been making Horcruxes. Harry and Dumbledore would start hunting Horcruxes at a much earlier point in the book, and all seven Harry Potter books would be reduced to three, or even two.
- WitBeyondMeasure on August 05 2012 04:26 PM



Personally, I think Harry would have died because Voldemort didn't have Harry's blood in his veins. There was nothing anchoring him to life - Harry only survived when he was an infant because Lily sacrificed herself. During that scene, there was no one to sacrifice their life for Harry, so Harry wouldn't survive.
- KeyaS on August 06 2012 05:44 PM



I think that Harry would have died. When Voldemort uses Harry's blood in GoF it basically turns him into a horcrux for Harry. Harry can only come back in DH because his blood is still in Voldemorts veins, just as Voldemort can come back when a piece of his soul is in a horcrux.
- nb_potternerd on August 07 2012 12:36 AM



I don't think Harry would've survived. While there is a connection to Petunia's blood, as many have argued, I believe that connection is purely a part of the Fidelus Charm, which we know only works as a measure to keep Harry hidden, not safe in the event of Voldemort finding him.

J.K. has also stated before that the whole love-magic thing isn't a simple equation and that even in GoF it's not as easy as Lily's protection+Voldemort taking blood+twin cores= Harry survives. Therefore I think that it's not as easy as saying that Lily's blood would protect him, because that kind of magic is so complex. If it was the case that Harry wouldn't have died that would basically have made him unbeatable, at least for Voldemort (if there is a connection there between it having been his curse that Lily so to speak blocked). It is never suggested by anyone (read Dumbledore) that Harry can not be killed wherefore I think it's probable that Harry would have died had a killing curse been cast.
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