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Podcast Question of the Week






Here's the Question of the Week from our second episode analyzing Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban!:

We know that Dementors make you dwell on your deepest darkest thoughts, and that makes them useful tools of torture in the Wizard World prison, Azkaban. They also disincentivize no-good magic folk to commit crimes by instilling fear.

But what if, hypothetically, Dementors were changed, and they made victims feel uncontrollable bliss or relive happy memories. Do you think this would function better for the prison - i.e. less breakouts? Are there any ethical concerns with Dementors being changed in this way, and which would you prefer if happiness were being used on you as an imprisoning force instead of fear?

Write your answers in the comments below and some will be selected and read on the next episode of Alohomora! Alohomora!

Posted by Caleb on January 26 2013 08:19 PM (30 Comments)


Comments
I think most people would much rather be forced to relive their happiest memories than their worst, but as far as the inhabitants of Azkaban are concerned I don't think it would work very well if the dementors were reversed. A witch or wizard is sent to Azkaban to be punished for their crimes, not go on a vacation. What kind of message does it send about the magical judicial system if all you get for using an unforgivable curse is a sentence of sitting in a cell and only being able to think about things that make you happy? It almost provides an incentive to become a criminal.

Consider this, though: In the muggle world, there are different types of correctional facilities. Some have higher levels of security than others, and the severity of your sentence as well as which facility you go to often depends on certain variables. For example, if your crime is minor and motivated by an addiction to drugs or alcohol, you may be ordered to go to rehab and receive treatment instead of being sentenced to time in prison. Perhaps these "reverse-dementors" could be used as experimental therapy for those convicted by the Wizengamot of certain offenses. People like Igor Karkaroff, who at least seem to show some remorse for their actions, could be ordered to anti-dementor rehabilitation while people like Bellatrix Lestrange, who show no remorse at all, are ordered to a more harsh sentence in Azkaban.
- Dream_Quaffle on January 26 2013 08:57 PM



depending on the person, I think that being forced to relive happier memories, would work as a harsher punishment than constantly living in fear. For example, if a person has some remorse in their soul, for what they've become, then living happier memories would be painful, because they'd be forced to realize what they've become and the fact that they can't go back.
If that makes sense.
- wiseoldbaker on January 26 2013 09:30 PM



I don't think that happiness could be an effective punishment for many people. Look at Bellatrix. Her happiest memories have got to be with her master, and I'm sure she would be more than happy to relive her time with him in prison, and Sirius would be forced to think of James all of time, which he does anyway, after prison. I think that fear is a much better motivation and incentive to stay away from Azkaban than happiness. After all, they are there to be punished.
- killey2011 on January 27 2013 08:28 AM



This question reminds me of something I once heard about the Swedish prison system. I'm not sure if it pertains to all prisons or just a few, but there are some that are called therapeutic communities. The prisoners live in their own homes or apartments in a gated community. They cook for themselves, and then get up everyday to go to their own individual job within the community. The prisoners work together harmoniously to keep up their own community. I also read that some prisons have field trips where the prisoners do community service outside the prison, in order to keep them connected to the outside world. This prison system seems to be successful in a lot of ways.

Although I believe this form of punishment would be good for some prisoners, those with lesser sentences, I can't imagine Bellatrix Lestrange being treated this way after all she has done without remorse.
- QueenSilver171 on January 27 2013 11:07 AM



No,of course not! I too agree that Azkaban is extremely socially inappropriate, but at least there is some punishment for prisoners. If they were forced to relive their happiest memories, there would be no punishment involved. The only plus of Azkaban would be that the people would be safer from the prisoners. Then again, when a sentence had been served, the prisoner would go back into the world a happier person and possibly pose a smaller threat. On the other hand, the happy memories might remind them of their motives ( Bellatrix with Voldemort) causing them to chase after the very idea that arrested them in the first place. I should send in another audition for the show on this:-)
- alex24601 on January 27 2013 07:47 PM



I think the punishment aspect of dementors is really important. You have to be the victim of the kind of torment you've caused for others.

I think the dementors feed off the misery, they don't eat happy thoughts.Happiness returns when they leave. I feel like they amplify the sadness, but the happiness is still there under it all. Otherwise, you couldn't summon a patronus or go back to a normal life after being released.

So with that in mind, I think the dementors sense what troubles you the most and that's what they amplify. In the case of someone like Bellatrix who finds great joy in her evil deeds, I imagine her time in Azkaban wasn't spent thinking of the crimes she committed against Muggles or her torturing of the Longbottoms (that was her, right?). I think the dementors put you in your own special hell. So maybe Bellatrix was forced to dwell on the things that were hurtful to her...Voldemort losing power, competing with her sister while growing up (the books don't talk about this, but I'm sure living as sisters there was some deep seated issue there that if amplified could torment her), anytime she wasn't in a position of power, whatever it is that makes her miserable.

I'm not sure what effect amplifying happiness would have on the dementors, but I think it would make turn prison from a place of punishment to a resort. I mean, if dementors did switch, wouldn't you want to take a vacation to a dementor spa and let them melt your troubles away for a week or two.

This whole question reminds me of the movie Monsters, Inc. If they could just learn to tell jokes, the wizarding world and the dementor world could live in harmony. :)
- jessfudd on January 28 2013 06:47 PM



I think that if dememtors encouraged happiness, then Azkaban wouldn't be a punishment, and isn't that the whole point of a prison? To punish people for crimes, and to prevent them from committing more crimes? If dememtors made people happy, then prison would be a therapy of sorts. Or maybe it would be like a drug: only good when used in the right circumstances, like for helping depressed people. But if you stayed in their presense too long, it would be too much of a good thing. Then crime rates would soar because everyone wants to go to this wonderful "prison". Although it seemed like a good idea for a moment, I am firmly convinced that dememtors bringing happiness would not be effective as prison guards.

Maybe they could have a role in helping depressed people, but definitely not as punishments for prisoners.
- Hermione Lovegood on January 29 2013 12:15 AM



I believe neither the good nor the bad memories should be taken away from the criminals. The purpose of a correctional facility should be to show the criminals why and how their bad actions/ideas/experiences are bad, why and how their good ones are good and how to use their past so as to build a different future. We are our memories and we can't learn without them.
- Efthymia on January 29 2013 02:52 PM



It wouldn't be much of a prison if you were happy to be there. When I toured Alcatraz in SanFrancisco, one of the points of the tour talked about how, since the prison is so close to the mainland, in the early days, on holidays like New Year's Eve, the inmates could hear the celebrations going on in the city. It caused them even more despair.
- Silverdoe25 on January 29 2013 08:14 PM



I believe happiness could be used as a successful tool for punishment. Being continually happy could easily become addictive. Take the “reverse dementors” away and the prisoners would start to go through withdraw. These people would effectively become prisoners of their own addiction as well as physically incarcerated. To me, this seems just as morally questionable as using normal dementors. People who are mistakenly placed in Azkaban (thinking of Hagrid here) can easily be released when normal dementors are in place. With reverse dementors, being released might only be a continuation of the punishment. Constant happiness might seem better, but it would leave normal life to look dull and depressing.
- AurorOO7 on January 30 2013 11:57 PM



If the dementors were reversed, the prisoners would be less likely to break out but it wouldn't be a prison anymore and people would willingly go there. However if there were times when the prisoners were exposed to the" happy" dementors then switched to the depressing ones the prisoners could realize what they've lost after experienceing moments of extreme joy and depression
- IBelieveNargles on January 31 2013 10:39 PM



Prior to Voldemort's second rise to power, had anyone but Sirius broken out of Azkaban? Well, save Barty Crouch, Jr., which was more like an accounting error on the Dementors' part. When Death Eaters began breaking out of Azkaban, I thought it was because the Dementors' allegiances were being swayed away from the Ministry. So the true nature of the Dementors seems pretty effective at keeping prisoners inside and hopeless. But I do not think that forcing Sirius to relieve happy memories would have prevented his breakout, because he would have still known that he was innocent, and as Sirius said, this thought was neither happy nor sad. Perhaps if the Dementors fed happy thoughts to Barty Crouch, Jr., his mother wouldn't have needed to trade places with him, but that's a pretty specific case.

As others have mentioned, the point of a prison is to punish prisoners, and no one would feel a sense of social justice sending criminals to a place where those criminals would be happy, even if that was a false happiness. Furthermore, what if giving them hope with happy memories had the opposite effect, invigorating them to try to get out and be with their loved ones?

But to change the nature of a Dementor would make the Azkaban arrangement even more of an ethical mess than it already is. The Ministry forcing the Dementors to change their very nature would be no better than a Dementor performing a Kiss on a human. The difference is that the Ministry witches and wizards have the capacity to fight their own impulses.

On the subject of Dementors, how often do you think the Kiss is performed? It always bothered me that wizards, who seemed more enlightened than muggles in many ways, were willing to allow (and sometimes relish) a punishment so much worse than death.
- VirtualWeasley on February 01 2013 09:40 PM



first of all wouldn't the crime rate increase if peaple would enjoy going to azkaban, there would be no fear of killing. second of all i'm sure that someone (siruis) wouldv'e had the mental streanth to leave (bec. you can stay sane , leaving would be like getting out of bet on a cold day) and also someone like Bellatrix whose happiness is killing, that would just be reliving her best murders and kill inmates or somthing.
if it was like this would u need to think about a sad memory to cast a patrounus?
is azkaban the only prisin in the wizarding world? do other counries have prisins? are they gaurded by dementer? if they are this is a serios flaw in magical law inforcement, if you commit a minor crime, then you either go to AZKABAN or get away with it.
sorry i kind of went on a tangent
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- Bader on February 04 2013 08:24 PM



I hope this isn't too late! I think that whether they "eat" happy thoughts or sad ones, Dementors would still harm a prisoner.
We all have light and dark in us, and that balance between good and bad, happy and sad, is what is essential in making us human. It's sadness that teaches us the value of happy times.
Sirius talks about how most of the prisoners in Azkaban go mad anyway, and sit muttering in their cells or screaming because they have nothing but bad memories. I think the same would be true if you had only happy memories. Maybe the process would start off okay, but feeling too happy can also be dangerous. I imagine the end result of anti-Dementors as something like a Cheering Charm gone crazy--people laughing insanely all the time.
So, in short, I think that Dementors, whatever kind of thoughts they suck up, create ethical problems. You're essentially driving people crazy through torture either way, and though some would argue that that's just punishment (and I would agree in extreme cases like Bellatrix Lestrange), for most prisoners Azkaban and Dementors seems unethical.
- suprememugwump on February 06 2013 09:54 PM



I think that having Dementors that made everyone happy could cause just as big of a problem as the ones that fed off peoples' negative emotions. I can see people committing crimes just so that they WOULD be sent to Azkaban. I can also see where it would drive people to the point of madness just like having Dementors that fed on their fears. There is such a thing as being too happy as well as being too sad and it would drive people to the point of madness just as well.

advance owl purr: I can't think of the name of it at the top of my head at the moment, but I thought Grindlewald was sent to another prison other than Azkaban.
- CentaurSeeker121 on February 07 2013 10:46 PM



Such a great question. The comments made me think for some reason about the movie The Matrix and the concept of choice in particular as it relates to balance. In that movie, one of the first versions of the matrix was a program where people were happy all the time and the program was rejected by the people who were "plugged in." They needed the good and the bad, they needed to choose to have balance in their life. Perhaps the concept of Azkaban as reliving either sad experiences or happy experiences as discussed here is just a reflection of that lack of choice or balance that would eventually make people miserable. There may be the odd person here or there who would choose to live with their happy memories all the time but I think most people would eventually feel something missing and want to break out.
- PuffNProud on February 08 2013 12:43 PM



I amend what I said earlier about wizards being more enlightened. They don't seem to care about race, but that's replaced by the pureblood v. mudblood conflict. Still, dementors seem unusually cruel.
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