Podcast Question of the Week: Episode 221

Could Voldemort have ended everything in two books?

What would have happened if Riddle had simply used Harry’s wand to kill Harry instead of monologuing? What if Fawkes hadn’t shown up? How would this have affected Voldemort moving forward, and how would the rest of the series be different?

Leave us a comment with your answer below, and we’ll read some of them in our next recap episode!

  • Harry’s maternal blood protection (because he was living with the Dursleys) was still in effect at that point, so he would still have survived somehow. He might not have been able to save Ginny though, so the Ginny Potter part of the story may have been eliminated.

  • daveybjones999 .

    My comment got detected as spam for some reason so here it is again in more posts.

    I’m only going to answer questions 1 and 2 for now. I might answer question 3 later. If Voldemort had used Harry’s wand to kill him, I think Harry would have died for real, destroying his horcrux, but riddle would have become real. I’m not sure about what would happen if Fawkes didn’t show up. There are several different possibilities in this scenario. Normally Fawkes brings the sorting hat to Harry, so without Fawkes he wouldn’t have been able to get the sword so I’m going to first look at all the scenarios that this could lead to.

    • daveybjones999 .

      1 Harry finds some other way to fight the Basilisk and succeeds. It’s possible that in this scenario Harry never gets stabbed by the Basilisk fang, and so there’s no need for Fawkes to heal the poison in Harry and the novel completes like it normally does with Harry removing a Basilisk fang to stab the diary with.

      2 Harry looks the Basilisk in the eye, but I’m not sure if this would have the same affect it would normally. Normally Harry would be killed/petrified, remember Harry has glasses so I’m not sure if it would act like the camera, or Nick, so it could be either one. But remember Harry is at least a partial Horcrux, and the only way to destroy one is to destroy the vessel beyond all repair. So I think it would be possible that the Basilisks’ eyes would have no affect whatsoever on Harry because the Horcrux would keep Harry alive unharmed and it plays out like in scenario 1

      • daveybjones999 .

        3 Harry looks the Basilisk in the eye and is killed/petrified and Voldemort comes back to full power.

        4 For arguments sake let’s suppose that the hat gets to Harry in some other way. The Basilisk would not have been blinded, but I think that Harry is resourceful enough that he could have figured out a way to kill the Basilisk without staring into its eyes, and also from

        • daveybjones999 .

          5 there’s the possibility that the Basilisks’ stare would have no affect. In this scenario he would get stabbed by the Fang like in the book. However, I’m not sure if Harry’s Horcrux would have been destroyed. On the one hand I think that the only way to kill that Horcrux is for Tom to kill Harry himself, but Basilisk Venom is one of the few things that can destroy a Horcrux. However since Harry is a special case, I think it could be argued that the Basilisk Venom wouldn’t have had any affect on the Horcrux within Harry, and that the Horcrux could have kept Harry alive.

          6 Harry is stabbed by the Basilisk and dies, but this wouldn’t destroy the Horcrux, and Voldemort still has them all and comes back to full power.

      • ousley

        #2 brings up a question I’ve pondered: are parselmouths immune to the stare of the basilisk? I feel like it would be tough to control the basilisk for so long without accidentally looking at it. This power would clearly have to extend to possessed-Ginny (for her to control the snake / enter chamber) and horcrux-Harry as unwilling recipients of the snake-tongue.

        In that case, Harry should have just “expelliarmus!” at its eyeballs.

  • travellinginabluebox

    This questions is making my head hurt, but I will try and untangle it and put my thoughts into words:

    Problematic is that Harry is partially a horcrux, so that has to be put into consideration. Another point is, that while the love protection is still effective, Harry and Voldy do not share blood. This is the basis for everything that follows.

    Had Voldy killed Harry with Avada Kedavra, I would assume that he would be killed, because as I understand the blood protection it wouldn’t protect him from another killing curse. If that were the case and every time someone attacked Harry with the killing curse and it rebounded, we (through Dumbledore) would have known that, so I therefore assume that this is not how the love protection works. The protection saved him once from death and is part of the protection that goes into 4 Privet Drive, which I always assumed as more of an addition to other protective wards. So that death eaters couldn attack him there. Which is why I think a killing curse would have been deadly for Harry. It would have both killed him, the horcrux and in conclusion Ginny, because Harry couldn’t save her. So Voldemort would have gained a new body and would be down one horcrux, not that that would stop him from making more.

    Hope that makes sense to you guys.

    • Fawkes survives a killing curse. This has no relevance to anything you just said, but it’s an interesting aspect to the bird. He swallows the curse whole and dies, rising again from his ashes.

  • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

    Would Diary-Riddle have been able to cast a killing curse? When he picks up Harry’s wand, he uses it to write his name and anagram, which must be a simple spell. After that he doesn’t do anything with the wand until he aims at Harry – and is interrupted by Fawkes retrieving the diary. So we don’t have proof that Diary-Riddle can cast unforgivable curses in this in-between-state, as long as Ginny is still alive. Of course, there are other ways to kill Harry in a duel, but magic-wise I’m not convinced that Riddle-Diary is as much a threat as Voldemort is after he is inhabiting his newly created body.

    Voldemort re-appearing as his 16-year-old self would have given the series an entirely new direction. With or without Harry, the Death Eaters might have reacted differently to a teenage Dark Lord than to the one they had been used to. Also, Diary-Horcrux-Riddle does not have the same knowledge and capabilities as his older/former self. He would have to learn a lot, and that would make him vulnerable to his enemies who have been there for all the time since this horcrux was made.

    If Fawkes had not shown up: the other teachers might have found Ron and Lockhart at some point, if they had made a real effort to find the entrance to the chamber of secrets. Correct me if I’m remembering this in the wrong order, but they were getting ready to help the petrified students and one of them might have given them some important clues.
    As for Harry fighting Diary-Riddle and the basilisk on his own without Fawkes’s help – well, who knows, maybe another unintendet burst of magic might have worked in Harry’s favor (like in other threatening situations) But all in all it is very fortunate to have a phoenix at hand when fighting dark wizards.

  • Because the question is asking what would have happened to Voldemort if Riddle was successfully in killing Harry, I’m not going to try to explain how Harry would have survived. The question is if Harry was killed in this moment, what would happen next?

    This gets into Kingdom Hearts territory, as I believe Michael has brought up before. We are in a situation where 2 Voldemort’s can potentially exist at the same time. Memorymort would eventually be successful in his plan to take Ginny’s life and become a complete person. At the same time, the essence of Voldemort that we saw in book 1 is somewhere still surviving. Memorymort, knowing he is a memory and learning that the real Voldemort had been defeated, probably would have taken it upon himself to revive the real Voldemort.

    I wouldn’t expect Memorymort to want to have power over real Voldemort. Like I said, memory Riddle acknowledges that he is a memory. He would probably become the most loyal servant Voldemort ever had.

  • ousley

    The portion of Voldemort that inhabited Quirrel seemed somewhat limited to the abilities of Quirrel. Otherwise, he probably would have been wreaking a lot more havoc than just releasing a troll in the dungeon and drinking unicorn blood.

    That said, Memory Tom could have been limited to the current magical abilities of Ginny. The horcrux is a piece of soul – and if the soul is separated from magical properties, that piece of soul would be totally reliant upon the strength of the host. Likely, he would need to move on to a new host soon if he wanted more power.

    This would also explain why he relied on the basilisk to kill Harry instead of doing it himself. He wanted to be threatening and all that, but he wasn’t physically capable of doing it yet.

  • I really don’t think that the memory Riddle would have been strong enough to cast the Avada Kedavra curse, but if it had actually worked that would destroy the horcrux in Harry and since Riddle and Harry don’t share blood then the blood protection between them wouldn’t exist, so both Harry and Ginny would of probably just died making the memory Riddle real and giving him the opportunity to seek out his weak shriveled up remains of his old body and found a way to gain power a lot earlier.

  • morthascool

    i always thought that if memorymort would have fully come back that goastyvort would be summoned back and they would join together in a bigger bit of soul. I always though that it was odd that Voldemort was in the ghostly state that the movie suggests hes in, as that seemed to close to Dieing in my mind after Halloween. In fact to go on a tangent i thought he was always babyvort that we see in the riddle house which would still fit with what voldemort said in the graveyard. With that head cannon we could then think that memorymort took care of babyvort while babyvort taught memoryvort everything he knew until one killed the other after they both took over the world.

  • Hermione’s Unicorn

    Voldemort couldn’t kill Harry because his mother’s sacrifice was still protecting him. Just like before, the spell would have rebounded and probably in turn, destroyed the diary. Though Harry would have been thoroughly confused. Fawkes would have been there either way because deep down, Harry is a true Gryffendor.

  • BloodCharm

    Hmmm, interesting question. I think that Riddle would have become solid and the sacrificial protection would still apply to him given that he and Voldemort are the same person, regardless of Voldemort’s Horcrux transformation. So, the curse would have been deflected again, which I’m 99% sure would be Avada Kedavra. BUT WOULD RIDDLE HAVE SURVIVED? With the potent combination of Voldemort’s soul and the memory of his 16 year old persona, I think we can assume that Riddle would continue to be a Horcrux, but a living one, just like Nagini. The Diary would have ceased to be a Horcrux because Riddle would not have been tied to it anymore once Ginny’s lifeforce was completely usurped by him. So the curse would have rebounded upon him and one of Voldemort’s Horcruxes would still have been destroyed, although Ginny would have died once Riddle became a real person and not a memory/ fragment of soul.